True or False - ASA

[IRISHMAFIA]

One out, runner on 1B. B hits a long fly ball to LF. R1 is between 2B & 3B when the ball is caught. R1 returns to 1B, but misses 2B along the way. The ball is overthrown at 1B allowing R1 to now advance to 2B. The defense appeals that R1 should be out for missing 2B on the way back to 1B even though R1 is now standing on 2B. The umpire rules R1 out on appeal.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

One out, runner on 1B. B hits a long fly ball to LF. R1 is between 2B & 3B when the ball is caught. R1 returns to 1B, but misses 2B along the way. The ball is overthrown at 1B allowing R1 to now advance to 2B. The defense appeals that R1 should be out for missing 2B on the way back to 1B even though R1 is now standing on 2B. The umpire rules R1 out on appeal.

yeah coz once you pass 2nd base you cant retreat to tag up in this scenario. so they would have to appeal the tagup at first?
so that would make my answer: false... wrong appeal.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

yeah coz once you pass 2nd base you cant retreat to tag up in this scenario. so they would have to appeal the tagup at first?
so that would make my answer: false... wrong appeal.

Why not? There is no restriction in ASA concerning returning to touch any missed bases or bases left too soon unless they have already advanced to the next awarded base.

[CajunNewBlue]

she passed 2nd base... then try to retreat..yes?

[CajunNewBlue]

my gut tells me this is just a DMR play and play stands as is.... but im trying to find the trick in the question... lol

and I dont have a ASA rulebook.... forgot to ask Santa.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

she passed 2nd base... then try to retreat..yes?

So?

[CajunNewBlue]

ok so then if she had passed home plate, in ASA they are allowed to retreat? or is this apples and oranges?

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

One out, runner on 1B. B hits a long fly ball to LF. R1 is between 2B & 3B when the ball is caught. R1 returns to 1B, but misses 2B along the way. The ball is overthrown at 1B allowing R1 to now advance to 2B. The defense appeals that R1 should be out for missing 2B on the way back to 1B even though R1 is now standing on 2B. The umpire rules R1 out on appeal.

Correct. 2008 ASA 8.3.A

When a runner must return to a base while the ball is live or dead, the bases must be touched in reverse order.
EFFECT: The runner is out, if properly appealed.
EXCEPTION: On a foul ball.

[greymule]

There's no question that in ASA R1 is liable to put out on appeal. However, exactly what is the violation? What violation does the defense appeal to the umpire? Is it the miss of 2B (remember, he's standing on it) or the failure to retouch 1B properly (after retouching 2B)?

In other words, does ASA consider R1, standing on 2B, to have fulfilled his responsibility to touch 2B, but—because he didn't retouch 2B first—to have failed in his responsibility to retouch 1B after the catch?

We might ask how R1 would correct his error(s) if he was between 3B and 2B when the throw was released, and then the throw entered DBT. If R1 had missed 2B on the way back to 1B, retouched 1B, and made it to 2B as the ball went out of play, how would he take his award (home)? Would he have to retreat and retouch 1B, retouch 2B, and then retouch 1B again before he took his award? Or would one retouch of 1B with a subsequent retouch of 2B be enough? (Or at this point is the error uncorrectable?)

[CajunNewBlue]

yeah... how does a runner fix this?

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

yeah... how does a runner fix this?

Huh, don't do it in the first place.....Like messing with you
NCB, you know that.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by whiskers_ump

Huh, don't do it in the first place.....Like messing with you
NCB, you know that.

one person gets it!! love you man!!

[AtlUmpSteve]

Here's my thoughts on the subject.

As SRW cites, the runner must touch bases in proper reverse order. And the "last time by" policy isn't accepted. So, having missed 2nd, the runner must return and touch 2nd.

Assuming he does return to touch 2nd, in order to return to 1st in proper reverse order, he must return again and retouch 1st. In effect, since he missed 2nd, the initial touch of 1st is invalid because it happened out of order.

It may be semantics, but the OP doesn't specify live ball or dead ball appeal. If a live ball appeal by tagging the runner (who is in jeopardy), I would accept the appeal as being "clear enough" in its intent. If a dead ball appeal, I believe the defense would have the opportunity during that dead ball period to reasonably explore any realisticly available appeal (in other words, I would answer the initial appeal in such a way as to suggest they might be asking the wrong question, without telling them what question to ask).

Or, I could be wrong .

[Tru_in_Blu]

From the original post, I'll assume the overthrow stayed in play and the runner advanced to 2B at his own risk.

My opinion is that the runner cannot be called out for missing second base [on appeal] since he's currently standing on it. The appeal was for missing second base, and I think that appeal should be denied. So I select "FALSE" to the original post.

However, if the appeal was that the runner did not correctly tag up at 1B, I think the runner should be called out.

If an infielder with the ball ran over to the runner standing on second base and tagged him, I'd have to ask for the specific infraction being appealed.

I'm not familiar with the last pass concept. A more obvious [but similarly egregious] offense would be if the runner crossed the middle of the diamond from around 3B and went directly to 1B [almost via the pitcher's plate]. But again, appealing the missing of 2B when he's standing on it seems hinkey to me.

And, if there was a runner at 3B at the start of all this, and that runner properly tagged and scored, the run would count as the appeal would be considered as a timing play.

Ted

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I'm not familiar with the last pass concept.
Ted

"Last time by" is a baseball concept. If the OP happened in a baseball game the runner would not be out because he touched 2B on the last time he ran to it. Touching a base on your last time by that base corrects any baserunning error you made at that base. As we have seen this only applies in baseball.