Mechanics Question

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Mike is predominately a slow pitch guy who thinks the live ball nature of fast pitch is silly. I stand by my comment that you killed the ball too soon.

Well, I'll stand by my response. Not having been there, no one on this board knows the correct answer other than Chess Ref. If, in his judgment, the play was over, it's over. Kill the ball and make a ruling.

And if you can show me in the book where it states the ball must be in the circle to kill it, please offer the citation.

Thank you.

[Andy]

I tend to agree with Steve here. If you wait until the ball is in the circle, you know nothing else is going to happen. Kill the play and make your award.

Chess - In your case, nothing happened and there were no issues with killing the play when you did. My personal feeling is that it is better to get into the habit of not killing a play until the ball is back in the pitcher's hands in the circle. That way, you won't get burned.

[vcblue]

Reading your post and I must wonder why you ruled dead ball and awarded second in the first place. This was the wrong call. Once the BR got up and returned to first the Obs was off per book rule.

Let say second makes a horrible throw to the pitcher to return the ball. The 1st base coach sees this and yells "run-run" (you did say 12U), however the catcher is on top of things and throws the ball to second and the runner is tagged out. Do you now rule Obs? No.. you have an out.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Once the BR got up and returned to first the Obs was off per book rule.

Huh?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Let say second makes a horrible throw to the pitcher to return the ball. The 1st base coach sees this and yells "run-run" (you did say 12U), however the catcher is on top of things and throws the ball to second and the runner is tagged out. Do you now rule Obs? No.. you have an out.

Dakota's huh already got the first paragraph. I'll just add that perhaps your referring to a different sport (?) for this paragraph.
________
Wellbutrin Class Action Lawsuit

[vcblue]

ASA changed the rule 2 or 3 years ago (I wish I had my book on me). But it does state that the obs is off if the BR returns to the original base. Your OP states the BR rounded 1st, which to me means she had tagged 1st base, then was obs, then returned. Once she return the obs is off. Did I read your OP wrong?

[MNBlue]

I read the OP as this: B/R had an easy double. Rounding 1B, F3 obstructed her and she was knocked to the ground. BU signalled DDB and stated obstruction. B/R returned to 1B.

BU ruled that B/R would have achieved 2B and awarded her such.

ASA 8.5.B

I can't find anywhere in my ASA rulebook that states if the obstructed runner returns to a base, the obstruction is ignored. Please provide a rule cite when you can get at your rulebook.

BTW - I would have waited until the ball was in the circle to kill it as well.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by vcblue

ASA changed the rule 2 or 3 years ago (I wish I had my book on me). But it does state that the obs is off if the BR returns to the original base. Your OP states the BR rounded 1st, which to me means she had tagged 1st base, then was obs, then returned. Once she return the obs is off. Did I read your OP wrong?

The latest book I have handy is the ASA 2007, and I can't find anything like what you're saying in the book, or anything that could be misinterpreted as saying this.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

The latest book I have handy is the ASA 2007, and I can't find anything like what you're saying in the book, or anything that could be misinterpreted as saying this.

My guess is he is "misremembering" (thank you Roger Clemens for that great addition to the language...) the change regarding the intervening play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

The latest book I have handy is the ASA 2007, and I can't find anything like what you're saying in the book, or anything that could be misinterpreted as saying this.

As Steve stated, the OBS would be cancelled is if 1B was the base the umpire had determined would be the award and there was a subsequent play on another runner. (ASA 8.5.B.1.Exceptions.a)

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Reading your post and I must wonder why you ruled dead ball and awarded second in the first place. This was the wrong call. Once the BR got up and returned to first the Obs was off per book rule.

Let say second makes a horrible throw to the pitcher to return the ball. The 1st base coach sees this and yells "run-run" (you did say 12U), however the catcher is on top of things and throws the ball to second and the runner is tagged out. Do you now rule Obs? No.. you have an out.

The ONLY variation of this that would be remotely true is if 1) you judged first the base you would award, and 2) the defense made a play on another runner as an interim play.

Otherwise, you have obstruction from the time of the obstruction until the end of ALL play; and this is when the ball becomes dead by rule, or declared dead by an umpire. Then, the calling umpire announces the base he is awarding. If 2nd was his judgment at the time, 2nd is proper award, no matter how many interim plays. Again, only overrunning the protections of 1) BOTH the intended award AND the two bases between which the obstruction occurred, or 2) the intended award with an interim play made on another player, or 3) a baserunning violation by the obstructed runner can end the obstruction sequence to protection and award at the end of all play.

[vcblue]

I'll have to get in to my book tonight, but that is why these discussion are good. The bottom line is I could have been interpreting the rule wrong for the past 2 years.