Mechanics question

[jmkupka]

One of my more challenging calls is the batter stepping out of the box while slap-bunting. I actually find it easier to see as a BU than as a PU, but I hesitate to make the call from the bases.

In A position, one can plainly see part of the plate disappear behind the foot of a right-handed slap-bunter. This happens pretty often, but in discussions with my partner, they've made it clear they'd rather I leave the call up to them.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

One of my more challenging calls is the batter stepping out of the box while slap-bunting. I actually find it easier to see as a BU than as a PU, but I hesitate to make the call from the bases.

In A position, one can plainly see part of the plate disappear behind the foot of a right-handed slap-bunter. This happens pretty often, but in discussions with my partner, they've made it clear they'd rather I leave the call up to them.

As the BU that's a tough call to sell from 75 feet away.

[wadeintothem]

Sorry, you cant make that call from BU IMO. Dont forget, she must make contact with the ball with one foot COMPLETELY outside the box and on the ground.

As PU, I watch for tells.

A slapper set up in the box is a good tell that this is a potential call.

Prints can be another. Watch where they are when they take a pitch. These can all be tells that this call could be forthcoming. None of this stuff you can see from BU.

Dont OOO this call. Be 100% sure.

Usually, they are legal. That is a big batters box with a lot of room up front.

Edit: Dont get sold on this call by a coach. They havent a clue as to this rule in 95% of the cases.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Edit: Dont get sold on this call by a coach. They havent a clue as to this rule in 95% of the cases.

Amen to that! Almost every night, I hear, "blue, he's out of the box," when maybe a couple inches of the batter's foot had gone past the lines (or what's left of them). I simply say, "nope, I'm watching," and I rarely hear it again.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Amen to that! Almost every night, I hear, "blue, he's out of the box," when maybe a couple inches of the batter's foot had gone past the lines (or what's left of them). I simply say, "nope, I'm watching," and I rarely hear it again.

I know how that is ( in reference to the comment about what is left of the box)

As for the original poster... No way on earth would I ever be 100 percent on that call depth perception is a HUGE factor and what may look like it from someone who is 78 to 81 feet away may not be what in actuality occured.

Yet I have another question that relates to this:

When a Plate umpire does not see the batted ball that has made contact with the batter and a Base umpire Kills the play which is correct. How do we know wether she was inside the box or not? A lot of the time the batter is out of the box when we call "DEAD BALL!" big as life it self.... so how do we really know? I know in NCAA (and a few others) we are supposed to delay to see if the PU comes out to trail before we kill it. In this case the batter is DEFINATELY out of the box... ok so maybe thats a few questions in one but I think its worth pondering.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

How do we know wether she was inside the box or not?

If I'm PU, I ask partner at pregame to call "Dead ball" if they see it hit the batter and that I will make the call of foul/out. If I then need help, I will discuss it with them.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Let me clarify...in NCAA we are supposed to wait...the question I am putting out is with out a "deviation/communication" how do we really know ?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

I When a Plate umpire does not see the batted ball that has made contact with the batter and a Base umpire Kills the play which is correct. How do we know wether she was inside the box or not? A lot of the time the batter is out of the box when we call "DEAD BALL!" big as life it self.... so how do we really know? I know in NCAA (and a few others) we are supposed to delay to see if the PU comes out to trail before we kill it. In this case the batter is DEFINATELY out of the box... ok so maybe thats a few questions in one but I think its worth pondering.

As to whether or not she was in the box or not, you , as PU, can't make that decision since, in the scenario you posted, you didn't even see the hall hit her. Therefore, it is the decision of the BU, who is 70 or more feet away. When I am out there and I call dead ball, I am going to err on the side of the batter and assume that she was in the box, unless she is clearly a step or two up the line.

Where did you get this "delay until the PU comes out to trail?" I can't find it in the CCA Umpire's Manual, nor in the 2008 NCAA Rules Book. I didn't hear this at the regional clinic in Dallas either. So, where did you get this?

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

As to whether or not she was in the box or not, you , as PU, can't make that decision since, in the scenario you posted, you didn't even see the hall hit her. Therefore, it is the decision of the BU, who is 70 or more feet away. When I am out there and I call dead ball, I am going to err on the side of the batter and assume that she was in the box, unless she is clearly a step or two up the line.

Where did you get this "delay until the PU comes out to trail?" I can't find it in the CCA Umpire's Manual, nor in the 2008 NCAA Rules Book. I didn't hear this at the regional clinic in Dallas either. So, where did you get this?

I got this from an evaluation by Ed Crane at the Rebel Spring games as for the manual I can not tell you just yet I am at work and I will have to go out to my car to get the manual. I will asap and see if I can't find it. But as for me if Ed Crane says it so then it should be in the manual so I took his word for it.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

It's been quite some time since I've visited the forums let alone posted a response.

There will be some here that recognise my user name and respectible experience.

The base umpire is allowed to call "Time" when they see a definite change in the flight of a bouncing or hit ball (as it contacts the batter). The base umpire must be absolutely certain that the batter is hit. It should be a slightly delayed call in that the plate umpire is given first opportunity to make that call.

The base umpire DOES NOT CALL FOUL OR BATTER OUT. That is a plate umpire decision ... and responsibility. If, as a plate umpire, you can't see this activity the vast majority of the time, then you've probably got some stance/positioning issues that need to be resolved.

As we all know, it does happen occasionally, that the base umpire has a great look at the front of the batter and can readily see the time of that contact, when the plate umpire will have lost sight of the ball. (The batter is between him and the batted ball.)

"TIME!" is the correct base umpire call.

Now the plate umpire must make some decisions and he knows that the contact occurred while the ball was out of his sight. Here are some questions to ask:
Has the batter moved?
No - foul ball. This situation is generally seen with a full swing.
Yes the batter has moved- moved to where? This situation is generally seen with a bunted or slapped ball. Standing still bunting - the batter is likely still in the box. Remeber these are two separate acts - bunt and then run. Slapped - possibly not in the box. In this case the acts of hitting the ball and running are simultaneous and the action of the ball bouncing off the ground is later - probably after the batter has taken a running step or two.

As a plate umpire, if you didn't see the contact and you are properly positioned to see this activity, then because of your partner's call, you know it occurred when the ball was out of your sight. When was that?

The correct decision (if you think about the timing questions above) probably shouldn't, but may require a conference with your partner. The base umpire may well have the information you need but remember: IT IS THE PLATE UMPIRE'S CALL. And there is no big hurry; take your time and figure it out.

[socalumps]

Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown

It's been quite some time since I've visited the forums let alone posted a response.

There will be some here that recognise my user name and respectible experience.

The base umpire is allowed to call "Time" when they see a definite change in the flight of a bouncing or hit ball (as it contacts the batter). The base umpire must be absolutely certain that the batter is hit. It should be a slightly delayed call in that the plate umpire is given first opportunity to make that call.

The base umpire DOES NOT CALL FOUL OR BATTER OUT. That is a plate umpire decision ... and responsibility. If, as a plate umpire, you can't see this activity the vast majority of the time, then you've probably got some stance/positioning issues that need to be resolved.

As we all know, it does happen occasionally, that the base umpire has a great look at the front of the batter and can readily see the time of that contact, when the plate umpire will have lost sight of the ball. (The batter is between him and the batted ball.)

"TIME!" is the correct base umpire call.

Now the plate umpire must make some decisions and he knows that the contact occurred while the ball was out of his sight. Here are some questions to ask:
Has the batter moved?
No - foul ball. This situation is generally seen with a full swing.
Yes the batter has moved- moved to where? This situation is generally seen with a bunted or slapped ball. Standing still bunting - the batter is likely still in the box. Remeber these are two separate acts - bunt and then run. Slapped - possibly not in the box. In this case the acts of hitting the ball and running are simultaneous and the action of the ball bouncing off the ground is later - probably after the batter has taken a running step or two.

As a plate umpire, if you didn't see the contact and you are properly positioned to see this activity, then because of your partner's call, you know it occurred when the ball was out of your sight. When was that?

The correct decision (if you think about the timing questions above) probably shouldn't, but may require a conference with your partner. The base umpire may well have the information you need but remember: IT IS THE PLATE UMPIRE'S CALL. And there is no big hurry; take your time and figure it out.

Where are you getting your info? "TIME" ?? Is that the correct terminology?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by socalumps

Where are you getting your info? "TIME" ?? Is that the correct terminology?

Actually, "DEAD BALL" would be the appropriate call.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown

It's been quite some time since I've visited the forums let alone posted a response.

I was beginning to think Idaho had seceded, but good to hear from you again.
As said, "dead ball" would be correct and as you said, after giving the PU a chance to make the call.

However, the OP seemed to be about illegally batting the ball with a foot out of the box, not a batter hit by the ball.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by socalumps

Where are you getting your info? "TIME" ?? Is that the correct terminology?

I'm guessing his respectable experience is as a baseball guy.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I'm guessing his respectable experience is as a baseball guy.

Must be. We baseball types cringe whenever someone yells "DEAD BALL." The proper baseball mechanic is "TIME." Don't ask me why the sports are different, cause I have no idea.

At the Evans Umpire Academy, when someone does that, all the instructors pull out fake guns and pretend to shoot the ball.