3-man Mechanics Question

[chuckfan1]

My playoff game wasnt til a day later, so went and watched another game. Saw a play where there was almost no umpire at the base to make the call.

No one on. Batter hits a chopper down 3rd base line. F5, behind the bag reaches up, ball caroms off his glove, into foul territory, towards the fence/dugout/spectators. U3 stayed with the ball and F5, following it over to the potential trouble area. The ball never went out of play.

BR tried for 2nd. U3 had no chance obviously to get over there. U1 was late recognizing the situation, and ended up hightailing it behind BR to try and get over to 2nd. U1 ended up making a safe call, several feet behind, on the run still. The play wasnt close, BR was safe. But couldve been a sh*thouse.

Heres where I disagree with a buddy...
He says U3 after pointing it fair, shouldve busted in, and take BR to 2nd, and let PU follow the ball, for any potential trouble.

I say, since U3 is right there, stay with the ball/F5 (ala "going out") and PU and U1 revert to 2-man.

What say you?

[soundedlikeastrike]

I'd prefer U3 come in, with U1 staying with the ball. Sound like you probably had two staying with the ball, U3 and U1.

But would expect U1 and U2 to recognize the situation and indeed revert to 2 man, then chew on U3 after the game.

Trouble balls IMO are fair foul and catch no catch. I just can't imagine any reason for U3 to go out on such a ball.

Unless of course the ball and or F5 trapped U3, him where he felt he couldn't get in?

I saw a similar play, AAA, Tacoma vs OK City a couple weeks ago.
R1, base hit down the RF line, U2 goes out and U1 followed the play all the way?

As the throw came back into to 2B, it short hopped F6 and bounced away from him into short LF, the now R2 could have and started to 3RD but changed his mind.

I couldn't help notice the reaction of U3 when he realized he was hosed, nearly pulled a hammy trying to recover to cover 3B. I could feel the tension as the play ended with U3 pointing to U1, (who was still returning from near
1B) then to 3RD, then the ole two hand shrug, questioning motion.

U1, I couldn't see his face, but did notice a distinct nod of the head and a slight shrug. Had the runner gone to 3RD, U3 would have been chasing the play, and one could tell he wasn't to pleased about it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chuckfan1

My playoff game wasnt til a day later, so went and watched another game. Saw a play where there was almost no umpire at the base to make the call.

No one on. Batter hits a chopper down 3rd base line. F5, behind the bag reaches up, ball caroms off his glove, into foul territory, towards the fence/dugout/spectators. U3 stayed with the ball and F5, following it over to the potential trouble area. The ball never went out of play.

BR tried for 2nd. U3 had no chance obviously to get over there. U1 was late recognizing the situation, and ended up hightailing it behind BR to try and get over to 2nd. U1 ended up making a safe call, several feet behind, on the run still. The play wasnt close, BR was safe. But couldve been a sh*thouse.

Heres where I disagree with a buddy...
He says U3 after pointing it fair, shouldve busted in, and take BR to 2nd, and let PU follow the ball, for any potential trouble.

I say, since U3 is right there, stay with the ball/F5 (ala "going out") and PU and U1 revert to 2-man.

What say you?

I agree with you. We pregame exactly this and we talk about DBT and the potential for spectator interference and how it's easier for the base umpire to see than the plate guy. Ball down the line, I'm ready to take the BR to second.

BUT, there's no reason the BU couldn't have taken this from behind -- throw's coming from the area behind third, so it's an easy call to make from behind second.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

I'd prefer U3 come in, with U1 staying with the ball. Sound like you probably had two staying with the ball, U3 and U1.

But would expect U1 and U2 to recognize the situation and indeed revert to 2 man, then chew on U3 after the game.

Trouble balls IMO are fair foul and catch no catch. I just can't imagine any reason for U3 to go out on such a ball.

Unless of course the ball and or F5 trapped U3, him where he felt he couldn't get in?

I saw a similar play, AAA, Tacoma vs OK City a couple weeks ago.
R1, base hit down the RF line, U2 goes out and U1 followed the play all the way?

As the throw came back into to 2B, it short hopped F6 and bounced away from him into short LF, the now R2 could have and started to 3RD but changed his mind.

I couldn't help notice the reaction of U3 when he realized he was hosed, nearly pulled a hammy trying to recover to cover 3B. I could feel the tension as the play ended with U3 pointing to U1, (who was still returning from near
1B) then to 3RD, then the ole two hand shrug, questioning motion.

U1, I couldn't see his face, but did notice a distinct nod of the head and a slight shrug. Had the runner gone to 3RD, U3 would have been chasing the play, and one could tell he wasn't to pleased about it.

Your terminology has me confused. PU, U1, U2, U3 makes it much easier, IMO.

The plate umpire should've recognized that U1 went with the ball and covered third, recognizing that he would need to get back to the plate in the event of a play there.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

I'd prefer U3 come in, with U1 staying with the ball. Sound like you probably had two staying with the ball, U3 and U1.

But would expect U1 and U2 to recognize the situation and indeed revert to 2 man, then chew on U3 after the game.

Trouble balls IMO are fair foul and catch no catch. I just can't imagine any reason for U3 to go out on such a ball.

Unless of course the ball and or F5 trapped U3, him where he felt he couldn't get in?

I saw a similar play, AAA, Tacoma vs OK City a couple weeks ago.
R1, base hit down the RF line, U2 goes out and U1 followed the play all the way?

As the throw came back into to 2B, it short hopped F6 and bounced away from him into short LF, the now R2 could have and started to 3RD but changed his mind.

I couldn't help notice the reaction of U3 when he realized he was hosed, nearly pulled a hammy trying to recover to cover 3B. I could feel the tension as the play ended with U3 pointing to U1, (who was still returning from near
1B) then to 3RD, then the ole two hand shrug, questioning motion.

U1, I couldn't see his face, but did notice a distinct nod of the head and a slight shrug. Had the runner gone to 3RD, U3 would have been chasing the play, and one could tell he wasn't to pleased about it.

sounds like the 3BU should have been pissed at himself, not his partner. if the 1BU goes out (with no runners on) the PU is responsible for the touch at 1B, any play on the b/r back into 1B and plays at the plate. 3BU would have been chasing the play due to his own lack of recongnition that it was his responsibility.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

sounds like the 3BU should have been pissed at himself, not his partner. if the 1BU goes out (with no runners on) the PU is responsible for the touch at 1B, any play on the b/r back into 1B and plays at the plate. 3BU would have been chasing the play due to his own lack of recongnition that it was his responsibility.

true -- but the play had R1 and a hit to the outfield, so the rotation is on. PU needs to be at third.

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

" if the 1BU goes out (with no runners on)".

R1 was the situation.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

R1 was the situation.

sorry bout that. missed the R1 in your post.

[tiger49]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

I'd prefer U3 come in, with U1 staying with the ball. Sound like you probably had two staying with the ball, U3 and U1.

But would expect U1 and U2 to recognize the situation and indeed revert to 2 man, then chew on U3 after the game.

Trouble balls IMO are fair foul and catch no catch. I just can't imagine any reason for U3 to go out on such a ball.

Unless of course the ball and or F5 trapped U3, him where he felt he couldn't get in?

I saw a similar play, AAA, Tacoma vs OK City a couple weeks ago.
R1, base hit down the RF line, U2 goes out and U1 followed the play all the way?

As the throw came back into to 2B, it short hopped F6 and bounced away from him into short LF, the now R2 could have and started to 3RD but changed his mind.

I couldn't help notice the reaction of U3 when he realized he was hosed, nearly pulled a hammy trying to recover to cover 3B. I could feel the tension as the play ended with U3 pointing to U1, (who was still returning from near
1B) then to 3RD, then the ole two hand shrug, questioning motion.

U1, I couldn't see his face, but did notice a distinct nod of the head and a slight shrug. Had the runner gone to 3RD, U3 would have been chasing the play, and one could tell he wasn't to pleased about it.

In a 4-umpire crew (PU, U1, U2 & U3) I too would be pissed if U1 doesn't go out on a ball down the right field line.

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by tiger49

In a 4-umpire crew (PU, U1, U2 & U3) I too would be pissed if U1 doesn't go out on a ball down the right field line.

Sorry bout the incorrect slang, PU, U1 and U2 only, 3 man.

R1. Base hit down RF line, U1 went out. I suggest, PU and U2 revert to 2 man coverage with; U2 taking R1 and BR in a B type location, and PU taking
R1 to 3B.
U2 started in C sliding towards B position. PU followed runner to 1B? Here is where I, and it seemed U2, disagreed with PU's choice of coverage? That's all I'm saying about that.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Sorry bout the incorrect slang, PU, U1 and U2 only, 3 man.

R1. Base hit down RF line, U1 went out. I suggest, PU and U2 revert to 2 man coverage with; U2 taking R1 and BR in a B type location, and PU taking
R1 to 3B.
U2 started in C sliding towards B position. PU followed runner to 1B? Here is where I, and it seemed U2, disagreed with PU's choice of coverage? That's all I'm saying about that.

I agree with that coverage.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Sorry bout the incorrect slang, PU, U1 and U2 only, 3 man.

R1. Base hit down RF line, U1 went out. I suggest, PU and U2 revert to 2 man coverage with; U2 taking R1 and BR in a B type location, and PU taking
R1 to 3B.
U2 started in C sliding towards B position. PU followed runner to 1B? Here is where I, and it seemed U2, disagreed with PU's choice of coverage? That's all I'm saying about that.

One more try, then. PU, U1, U3 if 3-man. Add U2 in 4-man.

Plate umpire should be covering third but be prepared to go back to the plate. The touch of first and any play on the BR at first or second belongs to U3.

[UES]

Original Question - 3 Man
"No one on. Batter hits a chopper down 3rd base line. F5, behind the bag reaches up, ball caroms off his glove, into foul territory, towards the fence/dugout/spectators. U3 stayed with the ball and F5, following it over to the potential trouble area. The ball never went out of play."

ANSWER: Since the ball went PAST 3rd base forcing U3 to rule on the fair/foul, U3 should probably stay with the ball. It is U1's responsibility to read this and bust in, pivot & take the B/R into second

Second Scenario - 3 Man
"R1. Base hit down RF line, U1 went out"

ANSWER: U3, who is positioned in either B or C, is responsible for the B/R's touch of 1st base and any play back into first or at second base. The PU rotates up to third base and is responsible for all plays and touches of third and if necessary, home as well

Second Scenario - 4 Man
"R1. Base hit down RF line, U1 went out"

ANSWER: The PU is responsible for the B/R's touch of 1st base and any play back into first (the reasoning is so that there is one umpire in front of the play and one behind the play). Once the B/R reaches second base, the PU rotates back home. U2 is responsible for all plays at second baseand U3 is responsible for all plays at third base

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by chuckfan1

My playoff game wasnt til a day later, so went and watched another game. Saw a play where there was almost no umpire at the base to make the call.

No one on. Batter hits a chopper down 3rd base line. F5, behind the bag reaches up, ball caroms off his glove, into foul territory, towards the fence/dugout/spectators. U3 stayed with the ball and F5, following it over to the potential trouble area. The ball never went out of play.

BR tried for 2nd. U3 had no chance obviously to get over there. U1 was late recognizing the situation, and ended up hightailing it behind BR to try and get over to 2nd. U1 ended up making a safe call, several feet behind, on the run still. The play wasnt close, BR was safe. But couldve been a sh*thouse.

Heres where I disagree with a buddy...
He says U3 after pointing it fair, shouldve busted in, and take BR to 2nd, and let PU follow the ball, for any potential trouble.

I say, since U3 is right there, stay with the ball/F5 (ala "going out") and PU and U1 revert to 2-man.

What say you?

R U in VA?

I swear I heard about this same play!

[chuckfan1]

Hey Thump....

Was here in So Calif, Orange County.
Got my 2nd rounder today, Im U3, so if this happens , Im ready!