Mechanics Question

[Chess Ref]

Doing a 12 U tourney game today.

I"m BU. Player hits shot down RF line , I hook inside and as batter runner is going around 1B the F3 backs into her. The pretty typical "I'm 12 and don't know what I'm doing move.". The BR gets splathered and I give the DDB signal and verbalize OBS. BR gets up and goes back to 1B. RF nows throws the ball into 2B....AT this point I call "Dead BAll" . I announce the BR is awarded 2B. And we go on.

Partner believes I should have waited to announce award till after ball is in the pitching circle. His thinking was the F4 could have throw the ball away and the player may have been able to advance to 3b etc. At the time I killed the play nothing was going on but does he have a point ?
I tried, a little anyway, to find something in the book about waiting till play was over but couldn't find anything...

What say you ?

[Dakota]

You did kill the play too soon.

ASA 10-4-E and H.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Doing a 12 U tourney game today.

I"m BU. Player hits shot down RF line , I hook inside and as batter runner is going around 1B the F3 backs into her. The pretty typical "I'm 12 and don't know what I'm doing move.". The BR gets splathered and I give the DDB signal and verbalize OBS. BR gets up and goes back to 1B. RF nows throws the ball into 2B....AT this point I call "Dead BAll" . I announce the BR is awarded 2B. And we go on.

Partner believes I should have waited to announce award till after ball is in the pitching circle. His thinking was the F4 could have throw the ball away and the player may have been able to advance to 3b etc. At the time I killed the play nothing was going on but does he have a point ?
I tried, a little anyway, to find something in the book about waiting till play was over but couldn't find anything...

What say you ?

ASA RS #14

...the ball remains live until the conclusion of play.

If, in you judgment, all play is finish, you kill the ball. Yes, there could be an overthrow and a 747 could drop on the field and there will not be anything "delayed" about the dead part.

That does not mean that if F4 immediately turns and throws the ball, you should kill it. It means if F4 catches the ball and makes no immediate move to make a play, take the opportunity to kill the ball, rule on the OBS and move on with the game.

[Chess Ref]

Well thanks for the references Dakota. But RS # 14 says "the ball remains live until the conclusion of play". Which at the time BR on 1b,nothing going on, F4 holding the ball on 2B,nothing going on....I'm gonna go with the Irishmens interp. on this one.

Unless of course there has been a thread around here on "conclusion of play "....Which I'm sure there has been.

[Steve M]

IF you wait until the pitcher has the ball in the circle, THEN you know nothing else can happen and the play is over. Sometimes you can see that the play is over before the ball gets to the circle and it's OK to call time. Apparently your partner was not convinced that all was done at the same time you were. I prefer to have the ball in the circle, but have called time a few times while the ball is somewhere in the infield and being requested.

[Chess Ref]

Partner is a noob....the kind of partner who will nitpick you to death but then took 2 of my calls with the justification of mechanics aren't set in stone. Both of the calls were textbook nothing going on that needed deviation from the book.
Having said that, the action was done, but I wanted to hear what you guys have on that particular scenairo.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Well thanks for the references Dakota. But RS # 14 says "the ball remains live until the conclusion of play". Which at the time BR on 1b,nothing going on, F4 holding the ball on 2B,nothing going on....I'm gonna go with the Irishmens interp. on this one.

Unless of course there has been a thread around here on "conclusion of play "....Which I'm sure there has been.

Mike is predominately a slow pitch guy who thinks the live ball nature of fast pitch is silly. I stand by my comment that you killed the ball too soon.

[wadeintothem]

Why did you kill it at that point?

That would be the question you should ask yourself.

You do not need to wait for the ball to be in the circle to kill it. The obvious example is a slide play with the defender holding the tag...

For your play, most likely what would have happened in 2b defender would have looked at 1b and tossed the ball to F1.. and you could kill it and there would be no possibility of questions.

We're likely talking a wait of a few seconds.

I agree, you killed it prematurely, but more importantly, without sufficient cause to kill it.

If it happened that everyone stood there looking at you, almost waiting for you to kill it (for whatever reason) or a coach started giving you cause to go ahead and kill it (sniveling about the obs/DC wanting int)...or whatever, go ahead and kill it and get to addressing the situation.

[DeputyUICHousto]

What happens of the throw to the pitcher is wild? Could the runner have advanced? I say wait until the ball is in the circle. Unless you have an injury situation I say wait.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Mike is predominately a slow pitch guy who thinks the live ball nature of fast pitch is silly. I stand by my comment that you killed the ball too soon.

Well, I'll stand by my response. Not having been there, no one on this board knows the correct answer other than Chess Ref. If, in his judgment, the play was over, it's over. Kill the ball and make a ruling.

And if you can show me in the book where it states the ball must be in the circle to kill it, please offer the citation.

Thank you.

[Andy]

I tend to agree with Steve here. If you wait until the ball is in the circle, you know nothing else is going to happen. Kill the play and make your award.

Chess - In your case, nothing happened and there were no issues with killing the play when you did. My personal feeling is that it is better to get into the habit of not killing a play until the ball is back in the pitcher's hands in the circle. That way, you won't get burned.

[vcblue]

Reading your post and I must wonder why you ruled dead ball and awarded second in the first place. This was the wrong call. Once the BR got up and returned to first the Obs was off per book rule.

Let say second makes a horrible throw to the pitcher to return the ball. The 1st base coach sees this and yells "run-run" (you did say 12U), however the catcher is on top of things and throws the ball to second and the runner is tagged out. Do you now rule Obs? No.. you have an out.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Once the BR got up and returned to first the Obs was off per book rule.

Huh?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Let say second makes a horrible throw to the pitcher to return the ball. The 1st base coach sees this and yells "run-run" (you did say 12U), however the catcher is on top of things and throws the ball to second and the runner is tagged out. Do you now rule Obs? No.. you have an out.

Dakota's huh already got the first paragraph. I'll just add that perhaps your referring to a different sport (?) for this paragraph.
________
Wellbutrin Class Action Lawsuit

[vcblue]

ASA changed the rule 2 or 3 years ago (I wish I had my book on me). But it does state that the obs is off if the BR returns to the original base. Your OP states the BR rounded 1st, which to me means she had tagged 1st base, then was obs, then returned. Once she return the obs is off. Did I read your OP wrong?