Runner assisted by coach

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Sadly, though, apparently some folks really DO mean it. That still just blows me away.

Joking about such things is common among just about any umpire group at any tournament. I never even considered any of it to be serious talk, just good natured ribbing of the poor slob who had the 4 tie-breaker 20 minute innings in a 10U game!

Unless, of course, you're talking about time-shaving in Seattle!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Joking about such things is common among just about any umpire group at any tournament.

But we have to be careful. I once got in trouble for making that kind of joke with my partner which was overheard by a spectator who told a coach.

[snorman75]

Guys,

First ASA is not clear on the home run. The home run effect is the ONLY effect of a ball going out of play the does not state in the first sentence, "The ball is dead." Omission by mistake or on purpose, ??? and they have not said.

You are telling me none of you have ever sent a message with a call? I have, and I will, part of game management in my eyes.

Example:

Little league, team winning by 20+ runs, still stealing on every pass ball and taking every close pitch.

1. My strike zone grows, if they can hit it it is probably going to be a strike.
2. Anything close is a out, for the team up.
3. If they keep running, they miss a base or leave early, either way I call a one or two out. Normally the message is heard and they stop running.

Are you protecting the integrity of the game making the losing team stand in the field for 45 min? and get beat for 50?

Well I am sorry I feel that hurts the game and the kids much worst and I am willing to take a hit to my integrity for that. We all know we have coaches out there that will run the score up on there own mother. It has really nothing to do with time of the game or wanting to get home.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by snorman75

...You are telling me none of you have ever sent a message with a call? I have, and I will, part of game management in my eyes....

No, I have not. I don't make up outs to "punish" a coach who I think deserves it. I will adjust the strike zone to the level of play, but not to send a message, and it is the same zone for both sides (to the best of my ability - a fast pitch pitcher vs. a rainbow pitcher is a challenge...). And I certainly do not make anything approaching, or even that could be construed as, a FYC.

That you do is your business, but it is not the noble thing you make it out to be. Quite the opposite. It is not "game management" - it is cheating.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by snorman75

You are telling me none of you have ever sent a message with a call? I have, and I will, part of game management in my eyes.

. . .

1. My strike zone grows, if they can hit it it is probably going to be a strike.
2. Anything close is a out, for the team up.
3. If they keep running, they miss a base or leave early, either way I call a one or two out. Normally the message is heard and they stop running.

Are you protecting the integrity of the game making the losing team stand in the field for 45 min? and get beat for 50?

Well I am sorry I feel that hurts the game and the kids much worst and I am willing to take a hit to my integrity for that. We all know we have coaches out there that will run the score up on there own mother. It has really nothing to do with time of the game or wanting to get home.

This is exactly why I hope I never have to work a game with you. You have determined that you are better than the game, and know what's better for everyone else. You are making up rules and dishonoring the sport. You're a detriment to the game.

Why do you umpire, anyway?

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by SRW

This is exactly why I hope I never have to work a game with you. You have determined that you are better than the game, and know what's better for everyone else. You are making up rules and dishonoring the sport. You're a detriment to the game.

Why do you umpire, anyway?

Making up rules, no. Making up calls, yes. Like I said if I feel it is out of hand, I am willing to take that hit to my integrity. I feel better me then the kids. So I guess all your points are made.


Like I asked before and getting back to original thread, anyone hear for ASA on a home run being a dead ball?

[robbie]

Dont think its ever a good idea to make a clearly "bad call" for the sake of the game.

If you adjust strikezone in a blow out, so be it. But if then a pitch is beyond that "adjusted limit"... its a ball. Even it it extends an inning, or causes anouter at bat.

Likewise, on a play where you say to your self: Hmm I THINK that runner left early. In "normal" play, I don't call an out on a THINK so, but in a blow out I may do so. But not just because it was close. I gotta really think a replay has at least 50-50 chance of proving correct.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by snorman75

...Like I asked before and getting back to original thread, anyone hear for ASA on a home run being a dead ball?

Why do you care? Just call it like you feel at the time.

But, to answer your question (it might matter to someone else) ASA Case Book, 2007

PLAY 3.5-8
(FP Only) B1 hits an out of the park home run and, as B1 passes 3B, removes their helmet. The plate umpire calls B1 out.
RULING: When the ball went over the outfield fence, it is no longer a live ball; therefore B1 did not remove their helmet during a live ball and should not be penalized. (3-5E EFFECT)

[WestMichBlue]

But, to answer your question (it might matter to someone else) ASA Case Book, 2007
Quote:

PLAY 3.5-8
(FP Only) B1 hits an out of the park home run and, as B1 passes 3B, removes their helmet. The plate umpire calls B1 out.
RULING: When the ball went over the outfield fence, it is no longer a live ball; therefore B1 did not remove their helmet during a live ball and should not be penalized. (3-5E EFFECT)

SO - after five pages - do we all agree that a home run is not a live ball, thus interference for runner assistance during a live ball cannot be called.

Unless appealed by the defense for missing a base, the B/R will score.

BTW - both NFHS and USSSA specifically rule that a "fair fly ball passing over a fence is a dead ball." Maybe ASA could take a hint.

WMB

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Why do you care? Just call it like you feel at the time.

But, to answer your question (it might matter to someone else) ASA Case Book, 2007

PLAY 3.5-8
(FP Only) B1 hits an out of the park home run and, as B1 passes 3B, removes their helmet. The plate umpire calls B1 out.
RULING: When the ball went over the outfield fence, it is no longer a live ball; therefore B1 did not remove their helmet during a live ball and should not be penalized. (3-5E EFFECT)

It took a week for someone to find this? It fits perfect. I will gain change my stance. She is not out. A week Dakota? you sited another one earlier?

[SRW]

Originally Posted by snorman75

Making up rules, no. Making up calls, yes. Like I said if I feel it is out of hand, I am willing to take that hit to my integrity. I feel better me then the kids. So I guess all your points are made.


Like I asked before and getting back to original thread, anyone hear for ASA on a home run being a dead ball?

I'm curious what you would have done in this situation...

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by SRW

I'm curious what you would have done in this situation...

Regardless of who you asked, a comment or two.
Getting to 64 with a 10 after 5 means they got 64 in 5 innings. Found that hard to believe momentarily, but remembered a game that was 21-0 after 2.
I have some concern that someone suggested "the role umpires can take". That should be what it always is, enforce rules, judge plays and let the teams worry about the rest (short of clearly UC).
Personally, I dislike calling deliberate outs either, like the LBR violations coaches invent, supposedly to be nice to the other team.

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by SRW

I'm curious what you would have done in this situation...

I go into that game with a HUGE strike zone. Wont change it, but will start huge. To qualify that, I have always have had a tight up, down and out zone. So my huge zone is others just a little bigger then normal.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by snorman75

Guys,

First ASA is not clear on the home run. The home run effect is the ONLY effect of a ball going out of play the does not state in the first sentence, "The ball is dead." Omission by mistake or on purpose, ??? and they have not said.

You are telling me none of you have ever sent a message with a call? I have, and I will, part of game management in my eyes.

Example:

Little league, team winning by 20+ runs, still stealing on every pass ball and taking every close pitch.

1. My strike zone grows, if they can hit it it is probably going to be a strike.
2. Anything close is a out, for the team up.
3. If they keep running, they miss a base or leave early, either way I call a one or two out. Normally the message is heard and they stop running.

Are you protecting the integrity of the game making the losing team stand in the field for 45 min? and get beat for 50?

Well I am sorry I feel that hurts the game and the kids much worst and I am willing to take a hit to my integrity for that. We all know we have coaches out there that will run the score up on there own mother. It has really nothing to do with time of the game or wanting to get home.

In this one post, you have:
- refused to accept a clearly obvious rule
- demeaned Little League and its players
- said you can judge what any batter can hit
- demeaned umpiring
- offended everyone else on this forum

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

But we have to be careful. I once got in trouble for making that kind of joke with my partner which was overheard by a spectator who told a coach.

Got you beat, ran a league, the two umps got together and said in front of the captains, well we only have 3 min left in the time, so lets not start another inning, and then got in their cars and left. It was the easiest/ quickest protest I ever dealt with.