Subs and Starters

[SRW]

An extremely interesting lineup management scenario happened to me Saturday at the ASA 18-Gold Western Territorial Qualifier. I was U1.

1 out. B2 (#22) bats and gets a single. B3 (#24) is up to bat next. Coach tells the PU "#6 for #24". PU nods, says "#6 for #24, ok coach" and writes the change, then anounces it to the other team's book.

S1 (#6) then goes and replaces B2 (#22) on 1B. B3 (#24) comes to bat, and the PU doesn't notice. F1 throws a strike to B3.

F2 turns to the PU and says, "Blue, didn't #6 come in for #24?" "Yes." "Then why is #24 at bat?"

Whatcha do now, blue?

(sidenote - we booted it by book, but both teams were ok with what we did...I'll tell you what we did later.)

[rwest]

Originally Posted by SRW

An extremely interesting lineup management scenario happened to me Saturday at the ASA 18-Gold Western Territorial Qualifier. I was U1.

1 out. B2 (#22) bats and gets a single. B3 (#24) is up to bat next. Coach tells the PU "#6 for #24". PU nods, says "#6 for #24, ok coach" and writes the change, then anounces it to the other team's book.

S1 (#6) then goes and replaces B2 (#22) on 1B. B3 (#24) comes to bat, and the PU doesn't notice. F1 throws a strike to B3.

F2 turns to the PU and says, "Blue, didn't #6 come in for #24?" "Yes." "Then why is #24 at bat?"

Whatcha do now, blue?

(sidenote - we booted it by book, but both teams were ok with what we did...I'll tell you what we did later.)

What you have is an unreported substitute (pitch-runner). I know they announced the substitute, but it was for the batter and not the runner, so I'd consider it unreported by rule. A pitch was made. So I believe we disqualify the unreported substitute (#6) and bring in another sub or #22 comes back into run. All other action as the result of the pitch stands.

[Dakota]

By rule, S1 entered the game for B3 when reported to the PU. (ASA 4-6-B). After replacing B3 in the lineup (officially and by rule), S1 then replaced (unreported) B2 on the bases, and B3 re-entered (unreported) to bat. Once a pitch was thrown, both of these entries became official. (ASA 4-6-C-1).

S1 is an illegal and unreported sub, is DQ'ed, and may be replaced on the base by B2 or another eligible sub. B3 is an unreported, but legal, sub and is DQ'ed and may be replaced at bat with the assumed count by an eligible sub. If no legal sub is available for B3, an out is recorded.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by rwest

What you have is an unreported substitute (pitch-runner). I know they announced the substitute, but it was for the batter and not the runner, so I'd consider it unreported by rule. A pitch was made. So I believe we disqualify the unreported substitute (#6) and bring in another sub or #22 comes back into run. All other action as the result of the pitch stands.

What about the batter, #24?

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Dakota

By rule, S1 entered the game for B3 when reported to the PU. (ASA 4-6-B). After replacing B3 in the lineup (officially and by rule), S1 then replaced (unreported) B2 on the bases, and B3 re-entered (unreported) to bat. Once a pitch was thrown, both of these entries became official. (ASA 4-6-C-1).

S1 is an illegal and unreported sub, is DQ'ed, and may be replaced on the base by B2 or another eligible sub. B3 is an unreported, but legal, sub and is DQ'ed and may be replaced at bat with the assumed count by an eligible sub. If no legal sub is available for B3, an out is recorded.

Nailed it. 2 DQ'd participants.

The coach admitted during this fiasco that he F'd up and told us "6 for 24", but meant "6 for 22". What we did (in error!) on the field:
- Called S1 out, removed from base. Did not DQ her.
- Let the OC re-enter B3 and assume the count.

Talking afterward in the umpire gazebo, one way to help prevent this mistake is when the coach says "6 for 24", the PU should repeat the change, and verify the names of the players. "6 for 24. You're putting in Vikki for Erin?" That'll clue the coach in if you say the names and they're not what's in his head.

[Dakota]

Since we just finished round 1 of our state tournaments (see my post on "more right" - round 2 for 16s and 18s is next weekend), and since this is the first time all season most of our younger-age level coaches have had to deal with following the lineup rules (bat-the-roster, unlimited subs on defense, last out CRs is the norm for league play and nearly all tournaments), I did brush up on the unreported sub rules! (Had to use them once, too.)

[rwest]

Originally Posted by SRW

What about the batter, #24?

The batter is another unreported sub as Dakota mentioned.

Hey, at least I got it half right.

[Dukat]

I know that this post is about ASA and Dakota hit it directly on the head in relation to that but this is one area where ASA and NFHS differ so what if it were NFHS?

In my estimation by NFHS rules:

S1 is an illegal sub (Also unreported but illegal is the call that would be made on her) so called out and restricted to the dugout for being illegal. (3-4-1)

But B3 is just an unreported sub so there is a team warning and she can continue to bat for herself. (3-6-7)

Would that be correct?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Dukat

I know that this post is about ASA and Dakota hit it directly on the head in relation to that but this is one area where ASA and NFHS differ so what if it were NFHS?

In my estimation by NFHS rules:

S1 is an illegal sub (Also unreported but illegal is the call that would be made on her) so called out and restricted to the dugout for being illegal. (3-4-1)

But B3 is just an unreported sub so there is a team warning and she can continue to bat for herself. (3-6-7)

Would that be correct?

The only thing I would add is that you must notate that B3 is a re-entry, and has used her one re-entry.