2nd Half Starters?

[sc/nc ref]

I had a situation last night that I haven't had before. About 2 minutes left in the halftime, and the Coach for Team A complains to me that the Coach for Team B won't report his starters for the 2nd half. Coach A was trying to get defensive matchups, and Coach B told her she would find out who was starting when they walked on the floor to start the half.
What is the rule?

[Blackhawk357]

Coach B has until the warning horn (15 sec) to inform table of any changes from the 5 that were on the floor at the break. If no changes are made the same 5 must start the 2nd half that finished the 1st half.

Blackhawk

[Jurassic Referee]

The same players that were on the floor to end the first half must start the second half, unless a replacement for one or more of them are legally substituted into the game at half time.

[golfdesigner]

Maybe this will help decipher the sitch--
RULE 3
SECTION 3 SUBSTITUTION
ART. 1 . . . A substitute who desires to enter shall report to the scorers, giving his/her number.

a. Between quarters, at halftime and during a time-out, the substitute must report or be in position to report to the scorers, prior to the warning signal which is sounded 15 seconds before the end of the intermission or a 60-second time-out and prior to the 20-second warning during a 30-second time-out.
b. Substitutions between halves may be made by the substitute or a team representative.

[Redhouse]

1

[JRutledge]

Substitutions must be made by a team representative. According to the rule it seems to imply that it must be done before the warning horn (15 seconds left in the halftime). But that is ambiguous at best. I would just make sure you have 5 on the court and the coach just would have to figure it out from there. If no players report or team representative does not report than the last players in the game will start the second half.

This is not an issue I ever have to deal with.

Peace

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Substitutions must be made by a team representative. According to the rule it seems to imply that it must be done before the warning horn (15 seconds left in the halftime). But that is ambiguous at best. I would just make sure you have 5 on the court and the coach just would have to figure it out from there. If no players report or team representative does not report than the last players in the game will start the second half.

This is not an issue I ever have to deal with.

Peace

I'm going to have to disagree - the requirement for reporting before the 15 second warning horn is clear as day:

3-3-1 a: At halftime . . . the substitute must report or be in position to report to the scorer, prior to the warning signal which is sounded 15 seconds before the end of the intermission . . .

2-12-4: The timer shall sound a warning signal 15 seconds before the expiration of an intermission.

And in case there's any debate over intermission vs. halftime:

5-5-1: [8 minute quarters] with intermissions of one minute after the first and third quarters, and 10 minutes between halves. The halftime intermission may be extended . . .


Now, if you choose to not enforce this rule, fine (it's pretty hard to enforce - again how many scorekeepers know what 10 players were on the floor at the end of the half), but it's spelled out clear as day in the rulebook.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Redhouse
1

Oh, yeah? The same to you!

[Kelvin green]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

I'm going to have to disagree - the requirement for reporting before the 15 second warning horn is clear as day:

3-3-1 a: At halftime . . . the substitute must report or be in position to report to the scorer, prior to the warning signal which is sounded 15 seconds before the end of the intermission . . .

2-12-4: The timer shall sound a warning signal 15 seconds before the expiration of an intermission.

And in case there's any debate over intermission vs. halftime:

5-5-1: [8 minute quarters] with intermissions of one minute after the first and third quarters, and 10 minutes between halves. The halftime intermission may be extended . . .


Now, if you choose to not enforce this rule, fine (it's pretty hard to enforce - again how many scorekeepers know what 10 players were on the floor at the end of the half), but it's spelled out clear as day in the rulebook.

Mark by rule you are a 100% right however which scorekeeper even knows which 10 players were on the floor when the 2Q ended. I have officiated for more years than I want to admit. Never in all those years in more than one place in the country have I ever had a scorer tell me that a team did not check players in and who they were/not etc.

Rut is right by practice 5 guys go on the floor to start the half and we play...

[JRutledge]

Mark,

The reason I say it is not clear because the requirement at halftime is to have a representative from the team report the lineup for the second half. Then they say the players have to report before the last 15 seconds. Which is it? It does not say that the representative has a time limit. This is all semantics if you ask me. You can assume that the team representative has the same requirement by default but it is not that clear in the rules. Then the casebook does not even address this at all. That is not very clear to me. But this is not an issue I have ever heard a coach make an issue with. Sometimes you are lucky that the table personnel are even back in a timely manner.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Mark,

The reason I say it is not clear because the requirement at halftime is to have a representative from the team report the lineup for the second half. Then they say the players have to report before the last 15 seconds. Which is it? It does not say that the representative has a time limit. This is all semantics if you ask me. You can assume that the team representative has the same requirement by default but it is not that clear in the rules. Then the casebook does not even address this at all. That is not very clear to me. But this is not an issue I have ever heard a coach make an issue with. Sometimes you are lucky that the table personnel are even back in a timely manner.

Peace

The representative doesn't have to report a line up at all. They may represent a sub or group of subs. As a representative of the sub, they must meet the same requirements of the sub.

[JRutledge]

I realize they do not have to do anything. Usually the 5 players that step onto the court are who we are going with (in the real world). I would not even know this was an issue unless someone informed me. In the original post the coach complains with 2 minutes left in the halftime. There is not requirement that gives a coach the right to know the match-ups 2 minutes or so left. It is unclear to me when a team representative has to tell the table when the sub comes in. And who is that team representative? Is that a coach, a player or the water boy? Is the coach going to complain if one player comes over and tells the table all the substitutions? Are we going to even care? Should we care?

Peace

[sc/nc ref]

So my response to the Coach who is complaining about not knowing who the starters will be for the other team is, "Coach, they have until the 15 second warning horn to make any changes from the lineup that was on the floor when the first half ended. By the way, do you happen to remember who was on the floor for either team when the half ended?"

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Mark,

The reason I say it is not clear because the requirement at halftime is to have a representative from the team report the lineup for the second half. Then they say the players have to report before the last 15 seconds. Which is it?

It's not a *requirement* for a representative to report the changes, it's an *option*. So, either the subs must report (3-3-1a) *or* the representative must report (at half only) (3-3-1b). Either way, it must be done by 15 seconds before the end of intermission, or the substitutions are disallowed.

And, by "representative" I'm pretty sure they mean "bench personnel"

[BamaRef]

Okay, I haven't read all the post on this subject but my quuestion is why not just have a defensive match up to begin the third quarter. A captain may request this match up and if the coach still doesn't like it, he just puts a player in that best suits his situation.

Am I way off?