Really disapointed in the forum

[Jaycec]

This may have been interesting if it were a difficult play to call.

Nice fishing trip, guy.

[NM FP Ump]

USSSA seems to be in line with ASA on this issue:

USSSA Seventh Edition:
RULE 8. BASE RUNNING
Sec. 17. The batter-runner is out:
K. If using the double base:
1. A batted ball hitting the white portion is declared fair and a batted ball hitting only the colored potion is declared foul.
2. Whenever a play is being made on the batter-runner, the defense must use the white portion and the batter-runner the colored portion. (ASA 8.2.M.3) The batter-runner is out when there is a play being made at first base and the batter-runner touches only the white portion, providing the defense appeals prior to the batter-runner returning to first base. This is treated the same as missing the base. Once the runner returns to the white, no appeal can be made.
Exceptions:
A. If the ball is thrown from the foul side of first base line.
B. When an errant or missed throw pulls the defensive player into foul ground.
C. If using the double base, and there is a force play by an infielder on the batter-runner, who touches only the white portion and collides with the fielder about to catch a thrown ball while on the white. (ASA 8.2.M.9)
Penalty: Interference is ruled, the ball is dead, the batter-runner is out, and all other runners are returned to the base last occupied at the time of interference.
3. The batter-runner or runner may touch the white or colored base when:
A. advancing or returning on balls hit to outfield with no play being attempted. (ASA 8.2.M.6)
B. tagging up on fly ball. (ASA 8.2.M.7)
C. returning on an attempted pick-off play. (ASA 8.2.M.8)

I could add more about USSSA vs ASA, but I won't go there In my limited experience, most rule sets are the same, but there are always some differences. When it comes to the double base, USSSA and ASA seem to be "on the same page."

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by snorman75

..." ...No outs runner on first. Pop up to first baseman, caught in foul ground, beats the runner back to first, BUT uses the colored section, not the white, to make the play.
Partner, on the bases, calls her out. ..."

Originally Posted by snorman75

...Not appeal play...Not a appeal...

Originally Posted by snorman75

...19 years umping, 5 years league commissioner and tournament director for 100+ teams, USSSA...

TILt!

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by NM FP Ump

USSSA seems to be in line with ASA on this issue:

USSSA Seventh Edition:
RULE 8. BASE RUNNING
Sec. 17. The batter-runner is out:
K. If using the double base:
1. A batted ball hitting the white portion is declared fair and a batted ball hitting only the colored potion is declared foul.
2. Whenever a play is being made on the batter-runner, the defense must use the white portion and the batter-runner the colored portion. (ASA 8.2.M.3) The batter-runner is out when there is a play being made at first base and the batter-runner touches only the white portion, providing the defense appeals prior to the batter-runner returning to first base. This is treated the same as missing the base. Once the runner returns to the white, no appeal can be made.
Exceptions:
A. If the ball is thrown from the foul side of first base line.
B. When an errant or missed throw pulls the defensive player into foul ground.
C. If using the double base, and there is a force play by an infielder on the batter-runner, who touches only the white portion and collides with the fielder about to catch a thrown ball while on the white. (ASA 8.2.M.9)
Penalty: Interference is ruled, the ball is dead, the batter-runner is out, and all other runners are returned to the base last occupied at the time of interference.
3. The batter-runner or runner may touch the white or colored base when:
A. advancing or returning on balls hit to outfield with no play being attempted. (ASA 8.2.M.6)
B. tagging up on fly ball. (ASA 8.2.M.7)
C. returning on an attempted pick-off play. (ASA 8.2.M.8)

I could add more about USSSA vs ASA, but I won't go there In my limited experience, most rule sets are the same, but there are always some differences. When it comes to the double base, USSSA and ASA seem to be "on the same page."

They should be since the USSSA rules come from the ASA book....

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

TILt!

There it is!

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by mdntranger

From: http://downloads.asasoftball.com/ump...ndcomments.pdf

Rule 8 Section 2M 3, 6, 7, 8 and 9: They now read as follows:

Section M 3: Whenever a play is being made on the batter-runner, the defense must use the white portion and the batter-runner the colored portion. (Removed is “by an infielder)

Effect: Once the runner returns to the white or colored base, no appeal can be made.
Comment: The Double base rule should apply whenever the batter-runner is advancing to first base regardless of where the ball was hit, infield or outfield. This also allows the batter-runner to return to either color after they have touched or missed the base no appeal can be made.

Section M 6: On balls hit to the outfield with no play on the batter-runner 1advancing to first base, the batter-runner may touch the white or colored portion. Should the batter-runner return, the runner may return to the white or colored portion.

Comment: This effects the Batter-runner on all balls hit to the outfield and there is a play on the batter-runner. The double base applies to any ball hit regardless of where. The batter runner may also return to either base, white or colored.

Section M 7: When tagging up on a fly ball, the white or colored portion may be used.

Comment: To stay consistent and call the White or Colored portions the same.

Section M 8: Fast Pitch, SP with stealing, 16-Inch Slow Pitch; on an attempted pick-off play, the runner may return to the white or colored portion.

Comment: To stay consistent and call the white and colored portions the same. This also applies to a timing play.

Section M 9: When there is a force play on the batter-runner, who touches only the white portion and collides with the fielder about to catch a thrown ball while on the white.

Comment: Removed the words “By an infielder”. The double base rule applies to all balls hit regardless of where.

Comments on Double base changes: The rule now is basically written so that as a batter-runner while advancing to first base the color you must touch remains the same regardless of where the ball is hit or the throw comes from. Once you have passed first base the base now becomes one base made of a colored portion and a white portion, 30 by 15 vs. 15 by 15

I love the wording here, but the only problem is 2006 rule changes, and the 2007 rules state a runner can use both sections on a tag, this old version is much better.


I guess I got it right on the field, but for the wrong reason. ASA feels the theory of the rule lets both the runner and the defense use both sections on a tag. I have added the letter at the end.

Boys it has been interesting. I knew with a little prodding you all would work on this. Some of you could only insult, but I am sure you have bigger problems then insulting me.

Thanks

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Actually, you said this wasnt an appeal play.

YOu are a pathetic umpire if that is true.

You are asking a question that is admittedly tough and in fact covered at schools and clinics.. and what is covered at clinics may not jive up 100% with the exact wording of the rule...

But appeal play is a no brainer Umpire 101.

Sorry man it is a protest not a appeal. Can you tell me why?

A response like this should tell many of you why new people are not becoming umps. We drive people away. If you do not get what I am saying, just ask your assigner.



"My name is Kevin Ryan and I am the Supervisor of Umpires for the ASA. Craig Cress sent this to me and asked that I respond to you. Yes you got the call right. Rule 8 Section 2 M 6 and 7 would cover this play. Section 2 M 6 says On ball hit to the outfield with no play on the batter-runner advancing to first base the batter-runner may touch the white or colored portion. Should the batter-runner return to 1B, the runner and the defense can use the white or colored portions. Section 2 M 7 says When tagging up on a fly ball the white or colored portion of the base may be used. In both case we describe that the defense or the offense can use both colors. Regretfully we can not add every scenario of what might happen so we use the theory if the offense can use both colors then the defense can also. We will look at the wording this year to see if we can add a few words to help clarify.

Thanks for the question.



Kevin Ryan

ASA Supervisor of Umpires

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by snorman75

Boys it has been interesting. I knew with a little prodding you all would work on this. Some of you could only insult, but I am sure you have bigger problems then insulting me.

Perhaps insulting the forum without asking for what you really wanted wasn't your best move, either. If you want something in particular, ask. Don't ask for opinions when you want specific rule citations.

I'm done with this guy. He's a troll with an inferiority complex. Hope I never call with him.

[Dakota]

Changing your OP radically after numerous replies tells me you didn't know what you were talking about and are trying to revise history.

It was not a protest; it was a live ball appeal. Can you tell me why?

What a jerk.

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Perhaps insulting the forum without asking for what you really wanted wasn't your best move, either. If you want something in particular, ask. Don't ask for opinions when you want specific rule citations.

I'm done with this guy. He's a troll with an inferiority complex. Hope I never call with him.

?? we are umps all we have are rules. I did ask for a interpretation, not opinions.
You know I will not lower myself. I will leave it at that.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by snorman75

?? we are umps all we have are rules. I did ask for a interpretation, not opinions.
You know I will not lower myself. I will leave it at that.

There is something lower than the bottom of a portapottie?

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Changing your OP radically after numerous replies tells me you didn't know what you were talking about and are trying to revise history.

It was not a protest; it was a live ball appeal. Can you tell me why?

What a jerk.

I changed my interpretation, never a "OP", when ASA told me I was wrong. Like I said from the beginning I like this interpitation, safer.


Let me set it up again:
1. under 2 outs
2. runner on first
3. foul pop up caught by first baseman in foul territory
4. First baseman beat runner back to the base, but used colored section to do it.
5. Runner was called out.

To be an appeal there needs to be a violation, by way I will site ASA definitions for "appeals & protest". There is no violation. There is the rule interpretation of the first baseman being allowed to use the colored section. Since it is a interpretation of the rules it is a protest. It is really that simple, how are so many of you guys getting this wrong?

6. The coach believed me and my interpretation, which at the time was; since the play originated from foul territory the first baseman can use the colored section. When it should had been since it is a tag play both the runner and defense can use both sections of first. So he did not protest.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

There is something lower than the bottom of a portapottie?

The cakes? Or is it that blue stuff?

Maybe that's why he insists he's a blue.

[wadeintothem]

Is anyone else getting PM spam from our new troll friend?

Or am I just special?

[Dakota]

I got one PM from him, but I wouldn't call it spam... he just made the same argument in a PM he did on the board.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by snorman75

6. The coach believed me and my interpretation,

Whats more pathetic- the troll, or the coach who believes him?