![]() |
|
|||
Jeff
I apologize, I was assuming and I know what to assume does. Makes an a** out of u and me, although not in your case, but certainly in mine. Sorry ![]() glen
__________________
glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain. |
|
|||
look back rule
It has been mentioned that once a pitcher has the ball in the circle, during a walk the batter/runner while attempting to go to second MAY reverse her direction if a play is made on her. Is this true ?, and what constitutes making a play. Does it require a throw by the pitcher, and if the ball is not in flight yet when the direction change is made THEN WHAT ? I was under the impression that a change in direction wasn't allowed PERIOD !, once the pitcher had the ball in the circle.
|
|
|||
Re: look back rule
Quote:
Changing directions more than this (in an attempt to attract a defensive play) is illegal. Stopping, feinting to 1st, and then running for 2nd is illegal - as long as the pitcher has not made a play. A play by the defense can be the pitcher raising her hand with the ball in it (a feint). And now the runner can do whatever she wants. The look-back rule is applicable to any runner off any base because they must be on the base at the time of the pitch. It is not just applicable to runners between 1st and 2nd. The situation of greymule with a runner forced to advance due to the batter being walked and the pitcher being sucked-in to making a play on a runner with no liability to be put-out is just stupid defense. Delay of game? Possibly; but I can't imagine that much dancing that the game could appreciably be delayed. Hope this helps! ![]()
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford |
|
|||
Once the pitcher makes a play on the runner, the look-back rule is off for all runners. It's like time out in that it is universal and does not apply in one place and not another.
I believe that ASA and Fed do differ in what they consider to be a play. In ASA, a play is just about anything the pitcher does that the runner might interpret as being a play (such as simply holding the ball up or turning quickly toward the runner). I no longer do Fed, but I think they want to see more of a definite "play." Incidentally, ASA POE #33, which covers the look-back rule, contains a very misleading sentence: "If a runner is moving toward a base, other than first base, when the pitcher receives that ball in the circle, that runner must continue toward the base or be called out." This is obviously untrue. A runner could have rounded 2B and be two steps toward 2B and still moving when the pitcher gets the ball in the circle. The runner is still entitled to a stop, after which she could either proceed toward 3B or return to 2B.
__________________
greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide! |
|
|||
Re: look back rule
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Tom |
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Tom |
|
|||
look back, batter/runner rounds 1st & goes toward 2nd
With NO PLAY BEING MADE ON BATTER RUNNER !. ASA 8-7-T-3-B Page 116 of "03" rule book states that if you "ROUND" 1st and move toward 2nd, you CAN STOP, but can't go back to first..you are committed to 2nd. This was where yesterday I was unsure. If you simply over run first and dont "round" towards 2nd then you can stop and return to 1st. I did not know the difference until just this morning.
In local league play we get walkers & 3rd stikers constantly "rounding" 1st, stop, and go back. They are OUT. |
|
|||
Re: look back, batter/runner rounds 1st & goes toward 2nd
Quote:
Quote:
8-7T-3b, c, d, and e concern overrunning. Here is the rule concerning rounding: Quote:
__________________
Tom |
|
|||
![]()
With a runner on second, and a walk to the batter, the lookback rule is NOT in effect until the BR reaches first. She is entitled to make a turn, stop, and then go either way without any further stops. If during this time, the runner off second is just standing there when the BR reaches first, at which time the lookback rule is in effect, watching what is going on at first, and the pitcher makes NO play, The runner at second is OUT. In greymule's play, which sorta got off the subject, and now we have two different plays, the runner on first when a walk is issued, goes to second without liability to be put out. Not sure why she is playing around before she gets to second, or why the pitcher thinks she can make a play on her, but she is protected to second.
__________________
Bob Del-Blue NCAA, ASA, NFHS NIF |
|
|||
Re: look back, batter/runner rounds 1st & goes toward 2nd
Quote:
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
|
|||
Re: Re: look back, batter/runner rounds 1st & goes toward 2nd
Quote:
__________________
Tom |
|
|||
Re: Re: Re: look back, batter/runner rounds 1st & goes toward 2nd
Quote:
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
|
|||
All this talk about ASA vs NFHS. Any of you umpires that do both should know by now that the LB rule is both books is 99.999% identical. The only difference I see is that ASA uses 8' radius and NFHS uses 16' dia to describe the circle; and ASA uses the pronoun HE and NFHS uses SHE. Oh, and ASA uses EFFECT and NFHS uses PENALTY, but the verbage within is identical.
Despite all the words, there is no difference between "Rounding" 1B and "Over-running" 1B. In both cases you have your basic "3 step rule" - Stop, Decide, and Proceed Non-Stop. The runner gets to stop once, then must decide whether to go to the next base or back to the last base. After the decision, the runner must proceed non-stop to the base of choice. If the runner "rounds" 1B, her movement is towards 2B and she get to stop once. (And we are not going to argue about how far she can go before the STOP.) Then decide, and either go to 2B or back to 1B. If the runner "over-runs" 1B, her movement is towards RF. When she pulls up to return to the infield she has committed a stop. A) If she turns Left then she must decide - go to 2B or return to 1B. Any movement towards either base commits her to proceed non-stop to that base. B) If she turns Right she is assumed to have decided to return to 1B, and any other action would be illegal. If you will just remember this "3-Step Rule", understand, and officiating the Look-Back Rule is simple. Oh BTW, there is one other difference between ASA and NFHS. For the LB to be in effect in ASA the pitcher must have control of the ball (in hand or glove); in NFHS the pitcher only has to have possession. Tucked under the chin while she adjusts her pony tail is possession in NFHS. WMB |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
|
|