Lookback Rule at 2nd Base

[dan_renninger]

I had this question asked to me by a coach concerning the new FED lookback rule and wanted to get some feedback from the distinguished brethern. Here's the play;

No outs. R1 is on 2nd base. B2 is at the plate with a 3-2 count. As the pitch is released R1 takes a strong secondary lead from 2nd, but the pitch is a ball. B2 heads down to 1st, takes an aggressive turn at the bag, comes off the bag about 10 feet, comes to a stop, and then heads back to 1st. R1 is still off 2nd watching the action. When does she have to get back to 2nd?

Here is the answer that I want to give to the coach. R1 is not influenced by the lookback rule - only B2 going to 1st base on the walk. R1 needs to return to 2nd once the pitcher has the ball in the 16 ft circle. Of course if the pitcher makes a play on B2 then all bets are off.

Do i have a clue? Let me know.

[Steve M]

Dan,
It sounds like your application of look-back is correct. R1 is not subject to the look-back rule until B2 reaches 1B. At that point in time - provided no "play" by F1 who does have the ball and is in the circle - R1 is subject to look-back and must immediately go to 3B or return to 2B with no further stop/feint/...

[Dakota]

Steve,

You are correct in your rule explanation, but I'm not sure that is what Dan was saying.

He said,

Originally posted by dan_renninger
R1 needs to return to 2nd once the pitcher has the ball in the 16 ft circle...

This sounds like he is saying R1 can be rung up as soon as the pitcher has the ball in the circle, regardless of where the BR is.

He needs to add "... and the BR has reached 1B." to his sentence above.

If I've misread your post, Dan, please correct me.

[dan_renninger]

Dakota,

If I was unclear I appologize - I did not intend to ring up R1 in this situation. I wa probably unclear, or something was lost in the translation from my keyboard to the computer. ;>)

[Andy]

On a walk, the lookback rule is "off" for all runners on base until the BR reaches first base. Once the BR has touched or passed first and the pitcher has the ball in the circle, the lookback rule is "on" for all runners on base.

In your situation, once the BR reaches first, B1 needs to commit one way or another. If she just stands there and the pitcher is not making a play on either her or the BR - she is out!

[greymule]

Last year, I had the following situation: R1 on first, B2 got a walk. F2 returned the ball to F1. R1, advancing to 2B, decided for some reason to pause and start deking to draw a throw. In normal circumstances, it would have been a look-back violation. F1 eventually started chasing R1, but she made it to 2B. Then the defensive coach wanted R1 out for the look-back rule.

I said R1 was entitled to 2B without liability to be put out. Was I right?

[SamNVa]

Greymule,

I'm going with the POE (#28 I think) on the Look-back Rule that states:

If a runner is moving toward a base, other than first base, when the pitcher receives the ball in the circle, that runner must continue toward that base or be called out. (original emphasis)

So in your case, I would have called the runner out when she started dekking around.

SamC

[mo99]

In the situation described,R1 would be out as soon as batter-runner reaches first.This is assuming the pitcher has the ball in the circle,and does not make a play or feint a play on either runner.
Jeff

[greymule]

Guess I should have called her out. Last year they didn't have the rule about the batter having to reach 1B. And I can't find any exceptions for walks.

I guess if you're wacky enough to try to bait the pitcher in a situation like that, you should be called out.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

I gotta go with your first gut feeling greymule.......

8-6-A says they are entitled to advance without liability to be put out........

I know that they are not exactly put out on a lookback rule violation........but I would not call them out........

Joel

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by SamNVa
Greymule,

I'm going with the POE (#28 I think) on the Look-back Rule that states:

If a runner is moving toward a base, other than first base, when the pitcher receives the ball in the circle, that runner must continue toward that base or be called out. (original emphasis)

So in your case, I would have called the runner out when she started dekking around.

SamC

Sam, gotta disagree here. I don't think R1 could be called
out under the look-back rule since she is entitled
to advance due to batter receiving walk. She, R1 has not
yet reached 2B she is protected and entitled to advance
without liability to be put out...We might impose a delay
of game on her though. {} or could impose 10-9A.

glen

[whiskers_ump]

OOOOOPS

Sorry, did not read Joels post and he's saying something
similar.

Verrrry..Verrrry sorry. ,

glen

[mo99]

We covered this scenerio at our FED mandatory rules meeting with our interpreter.R1 may come off second base until the batter runner reaches first base.At that point she must make up her mind and either return to second or advance to third.This is of course taking into account the pitcher has the ball in the circle and is not making or feinting a play.We were told to pump her out if she doesnt immediately decide which way to go.
Jeff

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by mo99
We covered this scenerio at our FED mandatory rules meeting with our interpreter.R1 may come off second base until the batter runner reaches first base.At that point she must make up her mind and either return to second or advance to third.This is of course taking into account the pitcher has the ball in the circle and is not making or feinting a play.We were told to pump her out if she doesnt immediately decide which way to go.
Jeff

Jeff

This is different. R1 was on first, never reached 2B. She
is entitled to advance without liability to be put out. She
was forced to vacate because the batter was awarded a BB.
Agree with your scenerio completely. [see greymule secenrio]

glen

[mo99]

Glen, In Dan's original post,he has that runner(R1)at second base prior to the walk.I agree with your scenerio,but if the runner begins the play at second and dances around the bag after the B/R reaches first,we have an out.
Jeff