Illegal pitch???

[Illini_Ref]

I don't do softball, so I need a ruling here.

Runner on third, one out. Pitcher winds up and stops. Penalty?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

I don't do softball, so I need a ruling here.

Runner on third, one out. Pitcher winds up and stops. Penalty?

What rule book? What kind of softball (fast-pitch, modified, slow-pitch)?

We'll need more details here, bub.

[Illini_Ref]

Sorry.

Girls 14 and Under fastpitch. Unsure if it was ASA or NFHS rules. Can you give me both?

[NCASAUmp]

I'll leave this one to the ASA FP guys. I only do ASA SP.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

I don't do softball, so I need a ruling here.

Runner on third, one out. Pitcher winds up and stops. Penalty?

Define "winds up".

Speaking NFHS, illegal pitch (pitch begins with either the pitcher begins her windup motion OR the hands separate).

Speaking ASA, may be a nothing if the hands did not separate. If the hands separated, IP.

[bigsig]

IP Penalty:
Ball on Batter
All runners advance one base.

[Illini_Ref]

Here is the situation as it happened. One out, runner on third, bottom of the sixth (5 inning tourny game). Pitcher brings hands together up then down (one pump) then stops. PU calls IP and awards runner home, game over.

Sounds like he got it right. My question is this.....do you call it. I've had a uninvolved coach say that you let it go in that situation. My worry is what to tell the opposing coach when he asks about it. Clearly a rule violation.

I say it has to be called if it is obvious. I don't do softball, but it is similar to a balk in a baseball game. Don't go looking for them, but you have to call the obvious ones.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

Here is the situation as it happened. One out, runner on third, bottom of the sixth (5 inning tourny game). Pitcher brings hands together up then down (one pump) then stops. PU calls IP and awards runner home, game over.

Sounds like he got it right. My question is this.....do you call it. I've had a uninvolved coach say that you let it go in that situation. My worry is what to tell the opposing coach when he asks about it. Clearly a rule violation.

I say it has to be called if it is obvious. I don't do softball, but it is similar to a balk in a baseball game. Don't go looking for them, but you have to call the obvious ones.

Assuming not NFHS (as it is JUly), if the hands did not separate, not illegal.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

Pitcher brings hands together up then down (one pump) then stops.

Did she ever separate her hands? From this portion of your reply, I'm guessing no. If not, I have nothing.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

Sounds like he got it right. My question is this.....do you call it.

Why not? Do the rules change for the last inning or when there is a runner on 3B?

I've had a uninvolved coach say that you let it go in that situation. My worry is what to tell the opposing coach when he asks about it. Clearly a rule violation.

The only time this shouldn't be called is if the pitcher has been doing the exact same thing the entire game and now, the umpire wakes up and makes the call. Otherwise, if it was illegal in the first inning, it's illegal in the last.

I say it has to be called if it is obvious. I don't do softball, but it is similar to a balk in a baseball game.

Don't even go there

Don't go looking for them, but you have to call the obvious ones.

You call what you see. You call what happens from the 1st pitch to the last. You will get umpires who say, "Well, I don't want to make a call that decides the game". Really? What does s/he think they have been doing for the previous hour or so? An umpire making a call NEVER decides the game. The teams decide the game. In this case, the pitcher decided the game, not the umpire.

[illinoisbluezeb]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

Here is the situation as it happened. One out, runner on third, bottom of the sixth (5 inning tourny game). Pitcher brings hands together up then down (one pump) then stops. PU calls IP and awards runner home, game over.

Sounds like he got it right. My question is this.....do you call it. I've had a uninvolved coach say that you let it go in that situation. My worry is what to tell the opposing coach when he asks about it. Clearly a rule violation.

I say it has to be called if it is obvious. I don't do softball, but it is similar to a balk in a baseball game. Don't go looking for them, but you have to call the obvious ones.

I_R has it right but to add a little as I saw it from behind the plate.

Trophy Game, 2nd inning of ITB, 5-5.
D5 and D3 were within 10-15 feet of homeplate and creeping closer, not in batters sight line with pitcher, about 4 feet off the line.
D1 had completed her rock/step back and was coming forward and stopped when her plant foot hit the ground. Hands were a part, then she puts hand together after she stops.

I immediately check the catcher to see if she had a problem to cause the pitcher to stop, I then check my partner to see if he called TO, he is standing hands apart palms up like ???. I look to see if something had been thrown on the field, had coaches come on to the field, all of this in about 10 seconds or so and find nothing (Thinking dam# there is going to be a bad firestorm) that caused D1 to stop. I then call illegal pitch and administer the ball to the batter and award R3 home.

The debate was not over legal or illegal pitch(i think everybody knew it was illegal) but was over the penalty. D coaches said it was just a ball on the batter and not a balk. I said it is like a balk but the batter gets a ball also.

I heard a father from the crowd say after I called the IP "Games over" before all of the yelling started from that area.

We did need some assistance to get through the fans to get to or umpire changing area. Thank the Tourney officals for that.

I_R tell your co-workers thanks for the backup, they were not needed but you never know.

[Shmuelg]

I'm with IR here.

Call it only if you have been calling that type of movement an IP the whole game.

Personally, I don't think I would call it an IP, but I'd have to see the precise situation. Is it part of her natural pitching movement, and then she stops? If so, IP. But again, IP's should be nipped in the bud waaaaay back in inning No.1.

Shmuel

[JefferMC]

Part 1: Last night in a doubleheader (NFHS), a batter stepped out of the box without getting time, pitcher already in motion, and the pitcher stepped back off the pitching plate and stopped her motion. The OC wanted an IP. The PU gave him a ball. (R1 on 2B stayed put). What do you think?

Part 2: Immediately after this I noticed that this pitcher was only getting the ball within two or three inches of being in the glove. (Hands apart while getting the signal, drops the ball hand towards the throwing leg, bringing the glove across the body to the ball). Would you call this?

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

Part 1: Last night in a doubleheader (NFHS), a batter stepped out of the box without getting time, pitcher already in motion, and the pitcher stepped back off the pitching plate and stopped her motion. The OC wanted an IP. The PU gave him a ball. (R1 on 2B stayed put). What do you think?

No pitch.

Originally Posted by JefferMC

Part 2: Immediately after this I noticed that this pitcher was only getting the ball within two or three inches of being in the glove. (Hands apart while getting the signal, drops the ball hand towards the throwing leg, bringing the glove across the body to the ball). Would you call this?

Yes.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by illinoisbluezeb

I_R has it right but to add a little as I saw it from behind the plate.

Trophy Game, 2nd inning of ITB, 5-5.
D5 and D3 were within 10-15 feet of homeplate and creeping closer, not in batters sight line with pitcher, about 4 feet off the line.
D1 had completed her rock/step back and was coming forward and stopped when her plant foot hit the ground. Hands were a part, then she puts hand together after she stops.

I immediately check the catcher to see if she had a problem to cause the pitcher to stop, I then check my partner to see if he called TO, he is standing hands apart palms up like ???. I look to see if something had been thrown on the field, had coaches come on to the field, all of this in about 10 seconds or so and find nothing (Thinking dam# there is going to be a bad firestorm) that caused D1 to stop. I then call illegal pitch and administer the ball to the batter and award R3 home.

The debate was not over legal or illegal pitch(i think everybody knew it was illegal) but was over the penalty. D coaches said it was just a ball on the batter and not a balk. I said it is like a balk but the batter gets a ball also.

I heard a father from the crowd say after I called the IP "Games over" before all of the yelling started from that area.

We did need some assistance to get through the fans to get to or umpire changing area. Thank the Tourney officals for that.

I_R tell your co-workers thanks for the backup, they were not needed but you never know.

About a month ago, I had a similar game and ending. 1st round state game, tied in the bottom of the 10th, 1 out, runner on 3B. F1 brought hands together, separated, stopped and backed off. After a quick mental replay to make sure I had seen what I thought I saw, I called the IP to end the game. Prior to this, F1 and been textbook legal.
If I see the IP, I'll call it, regardless of when.