Ejection Fest 07

[wadeintothem]

Is it just our area or does there seem to be more ejections than ever before? People are particularly bad this year and I know from my perspective, there should have been more ran that just werent run. .. so it actually should be MANY more.

Since Summer TB started, every tourney I've worked there has been 4-5 ejections at least (thats per weekend).. these are just the ones I know about. All at 18G level.. now for the past few weeks I've been working mens FP and there have been numerous ejections... but this weekend took the cake. I personally have ejected 5-6 since summer started.

Mens B&C Fast Pitch (ie big whiney babies) - I would have to put the number at 9-10 ejections for just this weekend (I had 1 and should have run much more, just about all umps had at least 1) and one game forfeiture (I wasnt involved in that but watched the whole thing (I was on break watching the game) which went... We were shorthanded and had to close a field and change tourney schedule because it is difficult to find umps willing to work this group of guys.. thats how bad they are.

The forfeiture..

Play at plate where runner is out by a mile.. runner jumps straight up when at F2 (holding the ball) as if to jump over a 6 foot catcher.. well obviously he did not clear the catch and a pretty ugly collision.. he gets ejected.. coach / PU involved in argument over ejection.. coach says too much, gets ejected.. BU is there trying to help keep control shield people off converging on PU.. pushing shoving match breaks out in RF between the teams and bench clearing.. and game forfeiture.

All ejections I've seen and performed were more than warranted and some real vicious things said to earn them.

It is my opinion that this year (btw my secret resolution was to get through the year without an ejection - that hasnt worked out so well since I'm well above my normal yearly quota).. has been very bad and people in our area seem really out of control (nor cal).

From what I've seen I dont have much hope of the ejections slowing down, because if you pull the crap on me that has caused my ejections this year, I will run you every time.

[IRISHMAFIA]

As sad as it is to say, FP is just catching up to SP. Too many Gene Mauch/Billy Martin/Earl Weaver wannabes that believe being a jerk is part of the game.

Well, being a jerk is NOT part of the game. As much as you hear about the whinny babies at the high level, men's SP, during Nationals, you (or at least I) never hear much more than "C'mon, blue!" from most of the players when they think you missed one. Many of the managers will protect their players, but that is part of their job and as long as an umpire understands that, the better for all.

Now, please note my comments are not absolute. There are the idiots and quite often even their own teammates will thank you for sparing the team.

However, I can only think that the FP coaches, especially the JO, have got to be trying to live up to some expectations placed on them by the parents/organization. I have observed conversations in the stands about a manager not going out to argue a call. Of course, there was no consideration to the possibility that it was correct and the coach knew it.

Like many of the players, people emulate what they see on TV. It is stupid, ridiculous and quite absurd, but it is also the truth. One only needs to observe the some of these "reality" shows being promoted heavily to understand how stupid people can act in public and think it is acceptable.

It is sad, but I have stood in front of local associations and advocated ejections for those who deserve them. Too many umpires want to be a "nice guy" and many players will respond in kind. Right up until the moment they think you just cost their team the world championship and as it seems, that is on every play of every game.

Some of these idiots cross the line because they don't believe the umpire has the nerve to dump them. Some are idiots who are just flexing what little muscle they have, acting the hero who is taking one for the team.

Well, I decided about 8 years ago that I will not be part of that circus. If I dump someone, I just do it. No big overhand toss, no thumb, no loud, boisterous announcement. I just tell them they are ejected and then find the coach for a substitute. It can take the wind out of their sails and often, the coach isn't even aware a player has been ejected until I ask for the substitute.

Just thinking out loud.

[wadeintothem]

Some of the male FP players literally try to intimidate you.. real disrespect.. and showing you up. Around the horn (every base) appeals on an in the park homer and then have nerve to complain you dont have the guts to call the out when the runner missed the base, dropping the bat on 3K and just standing in the box starring at the PU, I had SS arguing an "safe" call.. til he realized the ball was on the ground.. then he argued I didnt have a good angle if the ball had been caught, BOTH teams complaining about a good call just to show the umpire up, we cant eject everyone Mike.. and so many should be. I could probably go on and on. They've always been bad, they are real bad this year IMO. I'm not the defeatist type, thats why I'm one of the few in our association willing to take them on, I'm just gonna dump em.

[WestMichBlue]

My experience is going the opposite way. I haven'd had an ejection in several years.

I used to call men's FP and I averaged a player a game. Tried some woman's SP and still had to boot one. Several years ago coaches on JO travel teams were terrible and I was either on them hard, and sending them.

Now all I call is H.S. and JO summer ball. Never have a problem with H.S. ball and the JO coaches have definitely improved; they are actually fun to work with now. Sure you get a few arguments when the coaches don't know the rules; sure there are some discussions when the call doesn't go their way. But they are tolerable, and well within the limits of civility.

Now getting well into my senior years, I don't want the crap associated with adult ball. I am enjoying calling the young lady's games.

WMB

[CelticNHBlue]

In addition to what Mike mentioned, I also think that many of these players are empowered because we are having difficulty getting experienced umpires throughout a season or to travel for tournaments leaving us with less experienced umpires who don't understand where the line needs to be drawn and therefor allow these guys to get away with too much from the start. SB players are like adolescents, put your foot down and be consistent when applying the limits and they will fall in line. If you give an inch they take the mile and expect it from there forward.

An example for me from last season: I was asked to work some league post season 'modified' games. I was warned that these guys had been given too much freedom during the season and not to put up with any BS. First game, routine ground ball to F6 on 3B side. He makes a nice stop, has a little trouble getting the ball out of the glove and makes a stupid decision to go to 2B instead of 1B for the easier out. Runner beats the throw in marginally close play but didn't even warrant big sell safe. Pitcher throws his glove in the air in disgust and tells my I suck. That was the end of his night. Coach argues I have to warn him first. It takes a few minutes but we get him to the parking lot and we didn't have any problems the rest of the post season with either team.

The only reason we had to deal with this idiot was because the less experience umpires didn't recognize where the line was and/or had the b@!!s to toss him earlier in the season.

As to the point about it being worse this year than others; I haven't experience that here but I have seen a general trend over the past several years for reasons stated here and by others. I also find it odd that it is usually the teams with less ability and talent who cry the loudest. The better teams understand that umpires will make mistakes and so long as there aren't too many and the umpire shows some hustle, they will keep it to a minimum.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

BOTH teams complaining about a good call just to show the umpire up, we cant eject everyone Mike..

Really? Why not? If they deserve to be tossed, why should they get a break because s/he had 8 others beat him to the punch?

If they lose enough players to cause a forfeit, who was at fault? The umpires? I don't think so.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

My experience is going the opposite way. I haven'd had an ejection in several years.

I used to call men's FP and I averaged a player a game. Tried some woman's SP and still had to boot one. Several years ago coaches on JO travel teams were terrible and I was either on them hard, and sending them.

Now all I call is H.S. and JO summer ball. Never have a problem with H.S. ball and the JO coaches have definitely improved; they are actually fun to work with now. Sure you get a few arguments when the coaches don't know the rules; sure there are some discussions when the call doesn't go their way. But they are tolerable, and well within the limits of civility.

Now getting well into my senior years, I don't want the crap associated with adult ball. I am enjoying calling the young lady's games.

WMB

There it is right there.. you mention adult FP to a group of umpires and 75% will give you an "are you crazy" look. Why put up with that BS when you can do the same thing for same money and not put up with the jerks doing JO.


Another thing... coaches/players want to leave on the crop hop. Because we are asked not to call technical IPs (crow hopping, stepping forward before the pitch etc).. when you have a good crow hopper who essentially starts his pitch 4 feet in front of the plate, the runners are disadvantaged, so they want to leave on the replant.. it goes on and on.

[debeau]

Ummmm
No different than here in New Zealand and we only do Fastpitch .
Ive been told that as a Senior Umpire I should be able to "take" a bit more .
Two things here ,
Firstly we should set an example and if anything be quicker to eject , to protect our newer Umps so we dont loose them and secondly , Im with you Mike , stuff it if they deserve it they go and we must have similar ejection techniques , calm quiet , not showy and the coach not knowing until a sub is asked for .

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

As sad as it is to say, FP is just catching up to SP. Too many Gene Mauch/Billy Martin/Earl Weaver wannabes that believe being a jerk is part of the game.

Well, being a jerk is NOT part of the game. As much as you hear about the whinny babies at the high level, men's SP, during Nationals, you (or at least I) never hear much more than "C'mon, blue!" from most of the players when they think you missed one. Many of the managers will protect their players, but that is part of their job and as long as an umpire understands that, the better for all.

Now, please note my comments are not absolute. There are the idiots and quite often even their own teammates will thank you for sparing the team.

However, I can only think that the FP coaches, especially the JO, have got to be trying to live up to some expectations placed on them by the parents/organization. I have observed conversations in the stands about a manager not going out to argue a call. Of course, there was no consideration to the possibility that it was correct and the coach knew it.

Like many of the players, people emulate what they see on TV. It is stupid, ridiculous and quite absurd, but it is also the truth. One only needs to observe the some of these "reality" shows being promoted heavily to understand how stupid people can act in public and think it is acceptable.

It is sad, but I have stood in front of local associations and advocated ejections for those who deserve them. Too many umpires want to be a "nice guy" and many players will respond in kind. Right up until the moment they think you just cost their team the world championship and as it seems, that is on every play of every game.

Some of these idiots cross the line because they don't believe the umpire has the nerve to dump them. Some are idiots who are just flexing what little muscle they have, acting the hero who is taking one for the team.

Well, I decided about 8 years ago that I will not be part of that circus. If I dump someone, I just do it. No big overhand toss, no thumb, no loud, boisterous announcement. I just tell them they are ejected and then find the coach for a substitute. It can take the wind out of their sails and often, the coach isn't even aware a player has been ejected until I ask for the substitute.

Just thinking out loud.

I think the emotionless ejection serves two purposes..getting rid of an idiot while not feeding his ego.

But the real answer to testerone driven players is a league that won't tolerate ejections.. get tossed and you are suspended for two weeks, all games including co-ed with your wife, and the kids and grandparents in the stands.

This is not to say we, as umpires, should not expect arguments nor not know how to deal with them...But when they go beyond civility the players and coaches need to pay a higher price.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I think the emotionless ejection serves two purposes..getting rid of an idiot while not feeding his ego.

But the real answer to testerone driven players is a league that won't tolerate ejections.. get tossed and you are suspended for two weeks, all games including co-ed with your wife, and the kids and grandparents in the stands.

This is not to say we, as umpires, should not expect arguments nor not know how to deal with them...But when they go beyond civility the players and coaches need to pay a higher price.

I think that would be great, not real feasible. Travel teams travel and there is no central command and control or way to monitor it. One week they are here, one week vegas, then LA then Texas...

I also agree with the low key toss, I dont make a big show of it.. pretty much just a "youre gone"... well most of the time.

A few weeks ago, I was in B.. runner goes with the pitchers arm at 12 oclock.. I DB No Pitch out, he threw his helmet and it hit the ground right by my feet and sailed into RF... he got the MLB toss.. I'm not perfect...

[Steve M]

This year's two tosses have come within the psat 2 weekends - one in a men's major tournament and this weekend while doing 12&U B's.
The last time I used a big-finger ejection was about 7-8 years ago on a kid - and both father & daughter loved it. Her coach-father had been tossed and allowed to stay in the area. Daughter was not in the game at that time and went to sit with him. As BU, I saw this and just told the new head coach that she could not now enter the game. Later on, when talking with father & daughter I explained why she wasn't allowed to enter the game. With a smile, she asked if that meant she was ejected too. Laughing, I gave her the big finger toss and said "Now you can really say you were tossed."

I think Mike's right, FP is catching up to SP. I'm finding that I'm less tolerant of the garbage than I was 5 years ago. Maybe I'm just recognizing more now that some folks really don't want to be in a particular game - and once recognized, acknowledged.

[Bassman]

I usually am rather thick-skinned when it comes to the game at hand, but I usually make it clear at the pre-game that unsportsmanlike conduct will not be tolerated (In fact, New York Section VI mandates the warning for all of their scholastic contests). I had a Catholic JV game this spring. Working one-man (UGHHH!!!!), I had to flip a left fielder because he was singing the four-letter serenade.

[jimpiano]

I think that would be great, not real feasible. Travel teams travel and there is no central command and control or way to monitor it. One week they are here, one week vegas, then LA then Texas...

Then the next the travel brings them back the ejected player is ineligible for a game. Ejections for unsportsmanlike conduct demean and diminish the game. Those responsible need to pay a meaningful penalty for their disrespect.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I think that would be great, not real feasible. Travel teams travel and there is no central command and control or way to monitor it. One week they are here, one week vegas, then LA then Texas...

Then the next the travel brings them back the ejected player is ineligible for a game. Ejections for unsportsmanlike conduct demean and diminish the game. Those responsible need to pay a meaningful penalty for their disrespect.

One thing they could do for sure along those lines is an ejection for USC = out of tourney. These guys go and make some cell phone calls and drink a beer and then come harass the next ump. If they knew they were done.. might control that a little.

[archangel]

[QUOTE(I had 1 and should have run much more, just about all umps had at least 1) and one game forfeiture

(btw my secret resolution was to get through the year without an ejection -

From what I've seen I dont have much hope of the ejections slowing down, because if you pull the crap on me that has caused my ejections this year, I will run you every time.[/QUOTE]






I'm sure that you are a fine umpire, but a small part of the problem may be taken from your comments above...
a) if you should have run more, THEN DO IT!
b)whats with the resolution for 0 ejections?
c)then you finish with the "dont take no crap" comment??

My yearly "#" probably varies due to player/coach/situations out of my control, so I never concern myself with it. But I do respect myself, and fellow officials, enough to deal immediately with abuse.

Too many times, players get away with comments due to no negative reaction from the umps. Then the next games umps have to deal with it. I'm no ego ejector umpire, but I've found that my # of ejections are down for probably 3 reasons: teams know the type ump I am, I try to know the rules, I try to hustle.
Way, way, too many umpires look at not ejecting as doing the player a favor. That always backfires.
If you nip it ASAP- warn(depending on sich) then eject,-- the league will back you, you can feel good about managing the game well, teams will respect you more, the games become more like fun then work.
There are dummies in every walk of life, the key is how you deal with the