Missed it, Blew it, and it was BAD

[illinoisbluezeb]

NFHS game. R3 & R1. 2 out. R1 steals on the pitch, the catcher fires a throw to 3rd (a set play i think), F5 playing 1/2 way up the line fakes catching the ball F6 has moved to cover 3rd and catches the ball about belt high, a few feet towards home, and tags the runner just as she was starting her dive back to 3rd.

My partner, the BU, calls the runner safe . I believe he may have been shielded by F6 and missed seeing the tag. It was in front of the defense's 3rd base dugout to boot. Defensive coach yells " Can I appeal this." BU says " No it's a judgement call." He's right and maybe if she had said could you ask for help or ask you partner what he saw maybe it would have been different.

I know I can't say anything unles my partner asks for help, but it just doesn't seem right to say nothing. This was not a split second difference between the tag and touch the base. In basketball my association recommends go to your partner and tell him what you saw and let him change the call if he wants which I agree with. In softball and baseball you don't see this approach to getting the call right. But should we look at that type of mechanic. I am talking on the obvious, no doubters, not the bang bang plays where even slowmotion replay you can't help you decide.

Let the debate begin.

[JEL]

Originally Posted by illinoisbluezeb

NFHS game. R3 & R1. 2 out. R1 steals on the pitch, the catcher fires a throw to 3rd (a set play i think), F5 playing 1/2 way up the line fakes catching the ball F6 has moved to cover 3rd and catches the ball about belt high, a few feet towards home, and tags the runner just as she was starting her dive back to 3rd.

My partner, the BU, calls the runner safe . I believe he may have been shielded by F6 and missed seeing the tag. It was in front of the defense's 3rd base dugout to boot. Defensive coach yells " Can I appeal this." BU says " No it's a judgement call." He's right and maybe if she had said could you ask for help or ask you partner what he saw maybe it would have been different.

I know I can't say anything unles my partner asks for help, but it just doesn't seem right to say nothing. This was not a split second difference between the tag and touch the base. In basketball my association recommends go to your partner and tell him what you saw and let him change the call if he wants which I agree with. In softball and baseball you don't see this approach to getting the call right. But should we look at that type of mechanic. I am talking on the obvious, no doubters, not the bang bang plays where even slowmotion replay you can't help you decide.

Let the debate begin.

You "believe he may have been shielded by F6 and missed seeing the tag"

Maybe you were wrong.

"maybe if she had said could you ask for help or ask you partner what he saw maybe it would have been different."

That is true if the BU had some reason to feel he didn't see ALL the play.

"In basketball my association recommends go to your partner and tell him what you saw and let him change the call if he wants"

I don't do basketball, but this is similar in SB, and BB except you only tell if asked!

Bottom line is, that was his call, he saw it and made it to the best of his ability and judgement. What would give you the right to stop the game, and go tell him he was wrong?

Suppose the next pitch you call a ball, and your partner yells "TIME" then comes to you and tells you, "that really was a strike, I think you ought to ghange your call!" Is that really the mechanic you would like to change?

Handle your duties and let your partner handle his.

[wadeintothem]

I'm BU, PU is experienced NCAA guy with years under his belt. Pop up to foul territory F5 is moving to it, runs into coach. No catch, foul.

PU calls obstruction... and thats it... no out.. no nothing.. just a wrong call.

UIC was watching it and after game asked "what happened on that play" - I tell him I saw INT but didnt want to step on my partner who had already blown the call.

End of story.(well except the heckling I and the UIC gave him after the game for his brain fart)

I stand by what I did.. coach never asked for help. Partner never asked for help.. all was well that ended well (I guess), but there was definitely a blown call by a very good umpire that I clearly saw differently.

It happens. Sometimes ya gotta be a team for better or worse IMO.

[mcrowder]

Illinois. you, at the plate, saw what you think was a tag, between that runner and third base. Fine.

BU, in or near C, saw what he thought was NO tag. Also fine.

There is a REASON this is BU's call. It's that if you two see something different, it's more likely that HE is correct than you. I'm actually having trouble visualizing a case where you saw a tag which must have been made on the other side of the runner from you.

Not only do I think BU was likely right for not going to you (you could only have given him information that is likely to be less valid than what he already had), but I also suspect that he made the RIGHT call. Your angle HAD to be poor on this play.

I know you're going to say you saw a tag that he couldn't have seen, but given only the facts that A) the two of you saw something different, and B) he's in better position (angle and distance) for this call, I suspect he saw it better than you could have (no offense intended).

[Andy]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

...It happens. Sometimes ya gotta be a team for better or worse IMO.

This part of Wade's post is maybe the best reason you don't run out there and tell your partner that s/he is wrong.

You do that, now you have a coach (maybe both) thinking that maybe this BU is a new guy who needs help on every call and will be yelling at you to overturn any call that he (coach) doesn't like.

Each umpire on the field has his/her job to do and area to cover. We help each other when necessary and requested! Do your job, let your partner do his. Discuss it after the game if necessary.

[IamMatt]

Originally Posted by illinoisbluezeb

NFHS game. R3 & R1. 2 out. R1 steals on the pitch, the catcher fires a throw to 3rd (a set play i think), F5 playing 1/2 way up the line fakes catching the ball F6 has moved to cover 3rd and catches the ball about belt high, a few feet towards home, and tags the runner just as she was starting her dive back to 3rd.

Not saying it happened here, but in the sitch presented, might a PU's view of the play at 3B be blocked by F5 halfway up the line?

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I'm BU, PU is experienced NCAA guy with years under his belt. Pop up to foul territory F5 is moving to it, runs into coach. No catch, foul.

PU calls obstruction... and thats it... no out.. no nothing.. just a wrong call.

UIC was watching it and after game asked "what happened on that play" - I tell him I saw INT but didnt want to step on my partner who had already blown the call.

End of story.(well except the heckling I and the UIC gave him after the game for his brain fart)

I stand by what I did.. coach never asked for help. Partner never asked for help.. all was well that ended well (I guess), but there was definitely a blown call by a very good umpire that I clearly saw differently.

It happens. Sometimes ya gotta be a team for better or worse IMO.

"PU calls obstruction..."

Obstruction on who? And why?

Bob