You make the call - double base

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

How about "Once BR has reached first, it's just one big base"?

Not necessarily.

Speaking ASA

Line drive to right field. F9 makes a play to 1B in an attempt to retire the BR.

BR slides (pop-up) into the white portion of 1B just beating the throw (There was no INT, so please don't raise the possibility). The BR makes no effort to touch the colored portion of the base.

Since there was a play at 1B from fair territory, the BR, by rule, is required to use the colored portion of the base. If F3 with ball in hand and touching 1B turns to you and states, "Blue, she never touched the right base" are you going to call the runner out for missing the base?

[DaveASA/FED]

Well that is a tough one. Contacting the wrong portion of 1st with a play from fair territory is a live ball appeal that has to be done prior to the runner returning to the base, and since she is still on the base, it is going to be hard for me to call her out. I am going to say no, since she is in contact with the base and the appeal rule for that play states once she has returned to the white portion the appeal can no longer be made.

Ok I am ready to hear what I missed.....

[JEL]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Not necessarily.

Speaking ASA

Line drive to right field. F9 makes a play to 1B in an attempt to retire the BR.

BR slides (pop-up) into the white portion of 1B just beating the throw (There was no INT, so please don't raise the possibility). The BR makes no effort to touch the colored portion of the base.

Since there was a play at 1B from fair territory, the BR, by rule, is required to use the colored portion of the base. If F3 with ball in hand and touching 1B turns to you and states, "Blue, she never touched the right base" are you going to call the runner out for missing the base?

By rule I possibly should call her out, From a survival standpoint, I believe I saw her right foot touch the orange bag!

[tcannizzo]

Without looking it up. And without seeing the play.
My call - SAFE.
My interp - BR is entitled to use the white portion of 1B when they are advancing to 2B on an extra base hit attempt. Since ball was hit to outfield, BR will get the benefit of the doubt. Colored portion of the base is intended for a typical infield play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Colored portion of the base is intended for a typical infield play.

No so. By rule, ANY play at first. Infield/outfield was eliminated from an consideration a couple years ago. Obviously, since there is a play at 1B and the runner is sliding, I think the "advancing to 2B" would be a stretch to sell.

[tcannizzo]

I understand that a straight slide into 1B is a stretch, but without looking at the exact same play, this will be tough to resolve on a message board.

If the runner had swung wide as though advancing to 2B, perhaps betting that the ball would get RF, but then saw the throw coming in, I could see a slide into 1B and only getting white. (although I never agree with the strategy of sliding into 1B, except to avoid a tag).

My point is that the slide itself does not come into consideration in my ruling.

[SRW]

No, I'm not calling her out on the appeal. Why? Because she has to leave the base in order to return to it. The appeal has to be made prior to her returning. Since she never left the base, she can't return... so no appeal is allowed.

Just my overpriced $0.02. I'm probably wrong. Oh well.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Not necessarily.

Speaking ASA

Line drive to right field. F9 makes a play to 1B in an attempt to retire the BR.

BR slides (pop-up) into the white portion of 1B just beating the throw (There was no INT, so please don't raise the possibility). The BR makes no effort to touch the colored portion of the base.

Since there was a play at 1B from fair territory, the BR, by rule, is required to use the colored portion of the base. If F3 with ball in hand and touching 1B turns to you and states, "Blue, she never touched the right base" are you going to call the runner out for missing the base?

The runner is out.
R/S 1-L

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

I understand that a straight slide into 1B is a stretch, but without looking at the exact same play, this will be tough to resolve on a message board.

If the runner had swung wide as though advancing to 2B, perhaps betting that the ball would get RF, but then saw the throw coming in, I could see a slide into 1B and only getting white. (although I never agree with the strategy of sliding into 1B, except to avoid a tag).

My point is that the slide itself does not come into consideration in my ruling.

No, it is not an HTBT play. It is purely a rule interpretation question, not a multiple "what if" scenario.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Not necessarily.

Speaking ASA

Line drive to right field. F9 makes a play to 1B in an attempt to retire the BR.

BR slides (pop-up) into the white portion of 1B just beating the throw (There was no INT, so please don't raise the possibility). The BR makes no effort to touch the colored portion of the base.

Since there was a play at 1B from fair territory, the BR, by rule, is required to use the colored portion of the base. If F3 with ball in hand and touching 1B turns to you and states, "Blue, she never touched the right base" are you going to call the runner out for missing the base?

1) My comment "How about "Once BR has reached first, it's just one big base"? " was about being specific and correct instead of an earlier "passed 1st base", agreed to by that poster.
2) As the BR is out for not using the safety base on a play from fair ground, the BR has not "reached" 1st legally and so has not "reached"; based on rules not physics/geometry.
3) I would agree that on appeal, the BR is out. The "returning" concept is also rules, not physics/geometry. The rule is applied jst as if the BR leaped over the base or ran wide of it, because the white doesn't exist for BR rule purposes on an play of a "force" nature.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by SRW

No, I'm not calling her out on the appeal. Why? Because she has to leave the base in order to return to it. The appeal has to be made prior to her returning. Since she never left the base, she can't return... so no appeal is allowed.

Just my overpriced $0.02. I'm probably wrong. Oh well.

The scenario is even more evident in co-ed games where the women, more often than not, run to first and stop on the bag. If it is only the white portion then they have to be out on the proper appeal or the double base rule is diminished.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

The scenario is even more evident in co-ed games where the women, more often than not, run to first and stop on the bag. If it is only the white portion then they have to be out on the proper appeal or the double base rule is diminished.

In your situation, (or in the OP) how could you call an out? "Proper appeal" means that they did so before the runner returned... the runner never left, so consequently can't return. Hence the conundrum Irish is getting at... the DEF can only get an out on this if appealed prior to the BR returning to 1B. If she never left it to begin with (like the OP states), then by rule, there's no appeal allowed. Does this negate or diminish the safety base concept? Sure it does. Could it be a loophole? Sure it could be.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by SRW

In your situation, (or in the OP) how could you call an out? "Proper appeal" means that they did so before the runner returned... the runner never left, so consequently can't return. Hence the conundrum Irish is getting at... the DEF can only get an out on this if appealed prior to the BR returning to 1B. If she never left it to begin with (like the OP states), then by rule, there's no appeal allowed. Does this negate or diminish the safety base concept? Sure it does. Could it be a loophole? Sure it could be.

Common sense prevails here. A batter/runner who lands and remains on the white portion of the bag after the ball has arrived is out on proper appeal. If not, then there is no meaning to the rule.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Common sense prevails here. A batter/runner who lands and remains on the white portion of the bag after the ball has arrived is out on proper appeal. If not, then there is no meaning to the rule.

You just changed the scenario. No need to appeal that... ball beat the runner. Out.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by SRW

You just changed the scenario. No need to appeal that... ball beat the runner. Out.

my bad, the runner beat the throw...and is out, by rule, if properly appealed for missing the red base.