Double Base

[mach3]

We had this situation two weeks ago and find our discussion results not really satisfying. Maybe you can offer you viewpoint. It was played under ISF rules, but ASA or any other rulebook is of interest.

Sit.: Hit to the Infield. BR arrives at 1B befor the throw, but steps on the fairportion of the Double Base and stays there! Never leaves the bag and did nor overrun it.
No interference with F3.

BR violated a rule ("missed the base") but can it be punished? If they appeal it correctly can you call her out for missing 1B, the base she's standing on?

What if there is an injury on F3 due to that?

Thanks

Raoul

[Steve M]

Raoul,
In your situation, I have the B-R staying on 1B. Yes, the defense may appeal, but only a live ball appeal. And the live ball appeal won't change anything since B-R is standing on the white base.

If there's an injury, I've got to see it before having an opinion.

[Bagman62]

2004 ASA Rule 8 Section 2 Subsection M item 3 page 106 in part states, "the batter-runner is out when there is a play being made at first base and the batter-runner touches only the white portion, providing the defense appeals prior to the batter-runner RETURNING to first base. Once the runner RETURNS to the white, no appeal can be made.

In the situation you described the batter-runner never left the white portion of the bag, as a coach asked me during a discussion after an appeal, How can you return from a place you never left and the rule clearly states APPEAL PRIOR TO BATTER-RUNNER RETURNING TO FIRST BASE.

I changed my call to an out and advised the offensive coach of the rule. I also told him this was a rule interpertation subject to protest but he would have to explain to the protest committee how you can return from where you have never been.

I am sure this will muddy the waters and maybe a rule rewrite for clarification purpose.

[WestMichBlue]

Don't allow the double first base rules to muddy the waters. Its just a missed base! 1B, 3B, home plate - you need to tag the runner and appeal to the umpire before the runner touches the base. Once she is on the missed base no appeal is allowed.

WMB

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Bagman62
I changed my call to an out and advised the offensive coach of the rule. I also told him this was a rule interpertation subject to protest but he would have to explain to the protest committee how you can return from where you have never been.

You're being overly technical. But since you are there, are you sure the BR did not shuffle her feet a bit and thereby momentarily "leave" the base and "return"? Do you see how "angels on the head of a pin" this interpretation becomes?

You can't honor a live ball missed base appeal when the runner is standing on the base supposedly missed.

The rule clearly states it is a missed base appeal, not a case of a runner being off the base.

[Bagman62]

Tom,
I know I am being overly technical and when the defensive coach quoted the rule almost chapter and verse with emphasis on RETURN to the base, my "on the spot" decision was to enforce the rule written without clarification and a loop hole, the offensive coach mildly argued and said he would check the rule book.

After the game the offensive coach said it was a poorly written rule but without his player passing the base she could not return so technically I was correct. Thank goodness this was lower level REC ball.

I later found out the defensive coach was an ASA umpire and has a habit of using rule interpertation to his advantage, had I known that I would have made him put up protest fee and let the committee sort it out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

If the BR was going slow enough to come to a complete stop on the white portion of the base, you might want to consider if there was even a valid play on the BR.

Other than that, proposed rule changes are due today, so unless someone already presented it, that wording will remain the same.

That said, I will not be calling a player out for missing a base to which they are entitled when they are standing on top of it except under extrordinary circumstances.