The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 16, 2006, 06:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 293
Double base Fed.

B1 hits a sinking liner to right field and runs to 1st. There may be a play and the runner runs to the orange base. Just as she approches the base the ball skips past the right fielder and the runner uses the orange and procedes to 3rd. The defense appeals thet she missed 1st base. The interp for ASA is in this months Referee magazine. What is the call for high school?
__________________
ASA,NCAA,FED,NAFA
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 16, 2006, 08:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel
B1 hits a sinking liner to right field and runs to 1st. There may be a play and the runner runs to the orange base. Just as she approches the base the ball skips past the right fielder and the runner uses the orange and procedes to 3rd. The defense appeals thet she missed 1st base. The interp for ASA is in this months Referee magazine. What is the call for high school?
NFHS - if no play at 1B then B-R can touch either base the first time past, but then must return to the white base. Casebook 8.10.1

Deny the appeal.


WMB
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 16, 2006, 08:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fort Myers FL
Posts: 600
runner using orange on her run to first ?

what's the problem ??
__________________
Keep everything in front of you
and have fun out there !!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 16, 2006, 08:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Maryland (northeast of Baltimore)
Posts: 371
No play is being made on the batter runner so she is not required to use orange in your scenario. Fed rulebook 8-10-1, as well as casebook 8-10-1 cover this.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 16, 2006, 09:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 293
The umps in our high school game called the runner out for missing the base. I just thought I'd throw it on here since I have not posted in awhile.
__________________
ASA,NCAA,FED,NAFA
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 17, 2006, 08:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel
The umps in our high school game called the runner out for missing the base. I just thought I'd throw it on here since I have not posted in awhile.
Based on what? There is obviously no rule supporting their call.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 17, 2006, 11:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Yes, there is, Mike. This is high school ball. Using the safety base rule is by state association adoption. So far as I know, Rachel, MSHSL has not formally adopted the safety base rule, so technically, the orange base is dirt.

However, quite a number of varsity / JV fields here in the metro area include the orange base. These are school property fields, not public park fields. While they may inlcude the orange base because the fields are shared by the travel teams, since the MSHSL has not (to my knowledge) adopted the rule, it leads to this kind of call. Technically correct, but not what would be the normal expectation.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 17, 2006, 11:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Yes, there is, Mike. This is high school ball. Using the safety base rule is by state association adoption. So far as I know, Rachel, MSHSL has not formally adopted the safety base rule, so technically, the orange base is dirt.

However, quite a number of varsity / JV fields here in the metro area include the orange base. These are school property fields, not public park fields. While they may inlcude the orange base because the fields are shared by the travel teams, since the MSHSL has not (to my knowledge) adopted the rule, it leads to this kind of call. Technically correct, but not what would be the normal expectation.
Again, the cowardly act of allowing state options. Is there no courage? For an organization which touts it's ability to manage the sports of the high schools throughout the country, they are not too good with decision making or asserting their authority.

You are correct, but Rachel didn't note whether it was adopted or not, so since she raised the question of a double-base, I took it that it was accepted.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 17, 2006, 02:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 741
Send a message via Yahoo to MNBlue
This is from the MSHSL website.

TO: Athletic Directors / Softball Coaches
FROM: Lisa Lissimore
RE: Softball Double First Base Requirement

This notice is to inform you that beginning with the 2004-05 softball season, the double-first base will be required for all regular season softball games including B-squad, Junior Varsity and Varsity. This change comes as a recommendation from the Softball Advisory Committee. The Advisory Committee meets annually with League staff to review rules/policies that govern high school softball and to make recommendations to the MSHSL Board of Directors. Following reviews by the MSHSL Region Committees and the Athletic Directors Advisory Committee, the MSHSL Board of Directors approved the recommendation on October 7, 2004.

Minnesota has indeed opted for using the double first base.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 17, 2006, 08:17pm
Statistician/Ref Hybrid
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 1,037
If you're in a state where the double base is not required, but present, I'd recommend coerving this in ground rules so that both coaches know how to proceed.

We had this come up last year, and both coaches agreed at the pre-game conference to use the double base as laid-out on the field.

Not pregaming this in the given scenario is a recipe for disaster.
__________________
"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." – Dalai Lama

The center of attention as the lead & trail. – me
Games officiated: 525 Basketball · 76 Softball · 16 Baseball
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 18, 2006, 09:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNBlue
This is from the MSHSL website.

TO: Athletic Directors / Softball Coaches
FROM: Lisa Lissimore
RE: Softball Double First Base Requirement

This notice is to inform you that beginning with the 2004-05 softball season, the double-first base will be required for all regular season softball games including B-squad, Junior Varsity and Varsity. This change comes as a recommendation from the Softball Advisory Committee. The Advisory Committee meets annually with League staff to review rules/policies that govern high school softball and to make recommendations to the MSHSL Board of Directors. Following reviews by the MSHSL Region Committees and the Athletic Directors Advisory Committee, the MSHSL Board of Directors approved the recommendation on October 7, 2004.

Minnesota has indeed opted for using the double first base.
Notice who that is addressed to. Unless I missed it, (and I looked just days ago), it is not included in the officials manual nor in any other written material from the MSHSL for officials. I guess they figured we would just know what to do when we saw the base.

Besided, HAVING the base does not determine the rule. The NFHS had a very vague "rule" in the appendix up until this year, when they moved it into the playing rules section under state association adoption.

The MSHSL needs to firm up their communications with officials if, indeed, they have adopted the rule - and explain WHAT rule. Otherwise, you get what Rachel saw.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 18, 2006, 10:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 741
Send a message via Yahoo to MNBlue
Agreed - just look at the date of approval. The state had approved the requirement of the double base for all of last year, and at least one official was not aware of it. It makes a person wonder what other recommended rules that the state has adopted (or not) that the officials have not been made aware. The MSHSL definitely does not communicate adequetely with their officials.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 18, 2006, 11:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 114
In NYS the orange bag is now legal for the runner any time there's a play being made on them after they've reached the base. Meaning they can touch either side. They still must hit the orange portion on the intial play as a B/R
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 18, 2006, 06:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN
In NYS the orange bag is now legal for the runner any time there's a play being made on them after they've reached the base. Meaning they can touch either side. They still must hit the orange portion on the intial play as a B/R
If a State is abandoning NFHS, the least they could do is follow some other existing rule set. Sounds like the commissioner's daughter was called out for using the wrong half.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Double First Base SRW Softball 11 Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:59am
Double first base again DaveASA/FED Softball 10 Thu May 19, 2005 09:42pm
Again double base 1st oppool Softball 4 Wed Mar 26, 2003 01:40pm
ASA Double base play -- I hope I'm not off-base here Tap Softball 9 Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:15pm
Double base ? oppool Softball 22 Thu Aug 09, 2001 05:25pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:01am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1