Just thinking out loud

[Justme]

As I enter my second year of HS softball I had the opportunity to experience some interesting things from a coach. Yesterday I was working the plate for a varsity game, although it appears from the level of play that only one varsity team showed up. As the game progressed the frustration in the losing coach increased and so did his questioning what I felt are obvious rules.

1. The coach complained because I didn’t call a batter out for a “slap-bunt” that went foul. I tried to explain to him that there are no slap-bunts that it was a slap hit that went foul.

2. One of his girls was walking back to 3B while the F1 was heading for the circle. F1 was in the circle when the player heading to 3B stopped and looked at her. My partner called her out. The coach came out and asked if we hadn’t heard of a “delayed steal”. That his player was trying to make up her mind.

3. Then one of his girls at 2B, ball ‘live’ (F1 in the circle) was wandering off the bag not paying attention. Again my partner calls an out. The coach, “You can’t call that, there was no action” My partner tried to explain things to him that the ball was ‘live’.

4. The head coach walked by me and told me that I needed to help my partner (a 20+ year HS/college veteran) with the rules. I had to fight the urge to "run" him or at least walk over to his asst. coach and tell him that he needed to help the head coach with the rules (among other things).

5. The coach complained a couple of times about my “generous” strike zone when his players were batting but loved it when his F1 was working (although it didn’t help much). It seemed like he wanted two different zones. Again the urge to 'run' him came back.

With a varsity coach of this caliber there is no wonder why they lost by 15 runs. It also set a record for my longest SB game behind the plate at 2:14. My partner seemed to enjoy my reactions over the lack of rule knowledge demonstrated by the out of town head coach. In our post-game meeting (my partner was there to evaluate me) he explained that I did everything right (maybe a first) and that I handled things like a SB umpire rather than a BB umpire (which I have been forever). I’m not quite sure what that meant but after more than 2 hours of dealing with the head coach I didn’t want to ask, I was ready to go home.

[Steve M]

It sounds like you had a pretty good game in a game that was a blow-out. That is one of the toughest tiems to have a good game - for me.

[CecilOne]

wrt: "One of his girls was walking back to 3B while the F1 was heading for the circle. F1 was in the circle when the player heading to 3B stopped and looked at her."
Did the runner stay stopped, or did she just make her allowed stop and not have time to continue before being called out?

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

wrt: "One of his girls was walking back to 3B while the F1 was heading for the circle. F1 was in the circle when the player heading to 3B stopped and looked at her."
Did the runner stay stopped, or did she just make her allowed stop and not have time to continue before being called out?

As written in the OP, it sounds like R was called out immediatley upon stopping, which would be an incorrect application of the LBR.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Justme

4. The head coach walked by me and told me that I needed to help my partner (a 20+ year HS/college veteran) with the rules. I had to fight the urge to "run" him or at least walk over to his asst. coach and tell him that he needed to help the head coach with the rules (among other things).

5. The coach complained a couple of times about my “generous” strike zone when his players were batting but loved it when his F1 was working (although it didn’t help much). It seemed like he wanted two different zones. Again the urge to 'run' him came back.

In our post-game meeting (my partner was there to evaluate me) he explained that I did everything right (maybe a first) and that I handled things like a SB umpire rather than a BB umpire (which I have been forever). I’m not quite sure what that meant but after more than 2 hours of dealing with the head coach I didn’t want to ask, I was ready to go home.

I would say he was appreciating your restraint, although "running" the coach for either of these would have been overreacting in a manner attributed to BB umps.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

wrt: "One of his girls was walking back to 3B while the F1 was heading for the circle. F1 was in the circle when the player heading to 3B stopped and looked at her."
Did the runner stay stopped, or did she just make her allowed stop and not have time to continue before being called out?

Actually I don't remember how long she stopped, it wasn't very long because my partner called her out fairly quickly.

So she can stop? How soon does she have to make her choice?

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by Justme

Actually I don't remember how long she stopped, it wasn't very long because my partner called her out fairly quickly.

So she can stop? How soon does she have to make her choice?

Assuming this was her first stop after P has control of the ball in the circle, it is the standard timing of the LBR. I use one-thousand-one, one-thousand-DEAD BALL RUNNER IS OUT, if she was still standing still.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Justme

Actually I don't remember how long she stopped, it wasn't very long because my partner called her out fairly quickly.

So she can stop? How soon does she have to make her choice?

Immediately, defined as ...

But the point is it might have been too quick, no G in LBR.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I would say he was appreciating your restraint, although "running" the coach for either of these would have been overreacting in a manner attributed to BB umps.

I guess now I know what my partner was talking about, the difference between a SB/BB umpire

I still have trouble remembering (or understanding how) to call things like the LBR. The FLEX/DP I'm understanding now, I'm feeling pretty good with the differences in pitching and my mechanics finally look like I know what I'm doing. The differences between the small/big field messed me up a couple of times early on in my SB career. Since I still work mainly baseball I still have to think about things but they are becoming more automatic. So overall the decission to start doing HS SB was a good one, I'm having fun.

I've been ASA certified now so my next step is to work some men's fastpitch travel games.

[mcrowder]

LBR is actually pretty easy, if you take it in steps.

First - when is it on, and what turns it off:
It is on when: A) Pitcher has the ball in the circle and is not making a play, and B) BR has achieved first base.
It turns off if the pitcher makes or fakes a play.

Second - when it is on, what can the runner do:
A) the runner can continue going in the direction she's going ... for as long as she wants, at whatever speed she likes.
B) the runner can stop at any point (if the runner is stopped off the base at the moment LBR is turned on, she's already in her stop). Also note that simply reversing her direction is considered a stop.
C) she can stay stopped for a VERY short time (generally 1 second) to decide which way to go.
D) she can then proceed in any direction ... for as long as she wants, at whatever speed she likes.

Third - when it is on, what can the runner NOT do
A) The runner cannot stop for more than the amount of time necessary to make a decision - generally 1 second or so.
B) The runner cannot leave a base if she stops on it or is already stopped on it with LBR turns on.
C) The runner cannot stop (or reverse direction) twice. (This includes dancing).

Really pretty simple.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I would say he was appreciating your restraint, although "running" the coach for either of these would have been overreacting in a manner attributed to BB umps.

I have a question regarding that. I'm primarily a baseball umpire, however I was ASA certified and worked local and tournament softball for a couple of years. I always applied the same expectations of behavior to both my softball and baseball games. While I've run several baseball players and coaches, I never felt the need to run a softball player or coach (though I was close a few times).

What is considered enough by softball umpires in order for a coach or player to get ejected? I'm not trying to stir the waters here, I just never realized there was a difference.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I have a question regarding that. I'm primarily a baseball umpire, however I was ASA certified and worked local and tournament softball for a couple of years. I always applied the same expectations of behavior to both my softball and baseball games. While I've run several baseball players and coaches, I never felt the need to run a softball player or coach (though I was close a few times).

What is considered enough by softball umpires in order for a coach or player to get ejected? I'm not trying to stir the waters here, I just never realized there was a difference.

Player? probably very much the same for both sports. Head coach? probably similar, with a little more leniency as you go up, and a little more leniency in softball in general, from what I've seen. Not really due to rule... more due to a rather higher "ego-level" in baseball umpires than in softball umpires ... no offense. Assistant coach? Huge difference - in softball, most assistant coaches are afforded only a small degree less latitude than head coaches. In baseball, if an assistant coach even breathes funny at an umpire, he's gone.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

LBR is actually pretty easy, if you take it in steps.

First - when is it on, and what turns it off:
It is on when: A) Pitcher has the ball in the circle and is not making a play, and B) BR has achieved first base.
It turns off if the pitcher makes or fakes a play.

Second - when it is on, what can the runner do:
A) the runner can continue going in the direction she's going ... for as long as she wants, at whatever speed she likes.
B) the runner can stop at any point (if the runner is stopped off the base at the moment LBR is turned on, she's already in her stop). Also note that simply reversing her direction is considered a stop.
C) she can stay stopped for a VERY short time (generally 1 second) to decide which way to go.
D) she can then proceed in any direction ... for as long as she wants, at whatever speed she likes.

Third - when it is on, what can the runner NOT do
A) The runner cannot stop for more than the amount of time necessary to make a decision - generally 1 second or so.
B) The runner cannot leave a base if she stops on it or is already stopped on it with LBR turns on.
C) The runner cannot stop (or reverse direction) twice. (This includes dancing).

Really pretty simple.

That explains it pretty well...thank you

[wadeintothem]

some runner slowly walking back to 3B who stops, turns and looks at the pitcher, deserves to get rang up. This is not "Deciding on delay steal" this is "lazy kid base runner wasting everyones time". I also use the one-thousand one, one thousand "deadball out" .. i'm sure I could have gotten there on this lazy player.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I have a question regarding that. I'm primarily a baseball umpire, however I was ASA certified and worked local and tournament softball for a couple of years. I always applied the same expectations of behavior to both my softball and baseball games. While I've run several baseball players and coaches, I never felt the need to run a softball player or coach (though I was close a few times).

What is considered enough by softball umpires in order for a coach or player to get ejected? I'm not trying to stir the waters here, I just never realized there was a difference.

We do, however, have pretty much the same latitude about personal pronouns being used in conjunction with anything having to do about our ancestry, the love act or human waste.

BTW, I'm guessing if you have never felt the need to run a softball player, ya probably haven't done enough slow pitch.

I did, however, show great restraint Tuesday night when a player brought a tape measure out to home plate to measure the batter's boxes (of course they were baseball sized boxes). Didn't run him, which must mean I'm getting soft...or just too damn lazy to fill out the ejection report.