When to whack...counting out loud...

devdog69 · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 18, 2004, 02:23pm

Good game last night though ended up being a 30 pointer...But, winning coach by 18 or so, starts counting from 8 to 12 on a backcourt count. He may have been right, I lost the count for a bit, lots going on and I sure wasn't going to give it to him while he's loudly counting. They swat the ball OB and now I've got an inbounds and he counts all the way to six, and his count was pretty accurate

, then loudly congratulates his defense for getting a six count (which I didn't call), another swat out of bounds and another inbounds, about three seconds into the inbounds play, me not counting, I give him a stop sign and he does. Then on my way by I told him, 'the next time I hear counting on this bench, it's a whack job'. Quiet night afterwards he wins by 30 some. Comments?

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 18, 2004, 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by devdog69
Good game last night though ended up being a 30 pointer...But, winning coach by 18 or so, starts counting from 8 to 12 on a backcourt count. He may have been right, I lost the count for a bit, lots going on and I sure wasn't going to give it to him while he's loudly counting. They swat the ball OB and now I've got an inbounds and he counts all the way to six, and his count was pretty accurate , then loudly congratulates his defense for getting a six count (which I didn't call), another swat out of bounds and another inbounds, about three seconds into the inbounds play, me not counting, I give him a stop sign and he does. Then on my way by I told him, 'the next time I hear counting on this bench, it's a whack job'. Quiet night afterwards he wins by 30 some. Comments?

First: Never threaten a coach with a technical foul. You may find yourself eating your whistel later on in the game. Give a stop sign or tell him that you have heard enough and then let it go. Now you hold the upper hand while he gets to hang himself.

Second: The only accurate count is your count, not the coach's count. And lets face it, when Team B is down by thirty points and we are in the fourth quarter, how close do we pay attention to counts that could result in a turnover by Team B. I am not advocating ignoring obvious violations but there is a thing called game management.

MTD, Sr.

Ref Daddy · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 19, 2004, 12:38pm

Was this coach counting out loud for his team's sake or for a crummy comment towards your count?

JugglingReferee · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 19, 2004, 01:24pm

Quote:

Originally posted by devdog69
...he counts all the way to six, and his count was pretty accurate ...

Give him two gears and an application to Timex.

If his count is being used a method to show you up, ask him to please stop the counting. If he persists: WHACK.

refnrev · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 19, 2004, 11:50pm

I had a young smart mouthed coach use the out loud count to be a pain in the butt last week as well as toget the fans all riled up.(I should have tossed him and asked myself all the way home why I didn't.) It's bad sportsmanship and bad for the game. Ask him/her to cease and desist. If (s)he doesn't, be British and give them a spot of "T."

jdccpa · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 20, 2004, 09:23am

I called two consecutive 5 second violations on a team one time. Their Coach called a time out and after the time out everytime they had the ball OOBs the whole team on the floor counted along with my arm motion. I thought it was good coaching on his part.

At one ref camp they told us to close our eyes and count 10 seconds, I happened to be the one with a watch with a second hand and was asked to keep the time, I got to see the twenty refs in the room count off the 10 seconds. No one had it right. Most came in at 15 seconds, four or five were still counting at twenty seconds.

The instructor suggested that we practice our counting at home standing in front of the microwave oven.

Before you start handing out Ts I would suggest that you are confident that your counting cadence is somewhat accurate,and never, never forget to start and keep the count when required, even if it looks like that point guard is going to make it over mid court in 3 seconds flat.

[Edited by jdccpa on Dec 20th, 2004 at 03:00 PM]

Mark Dexter · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 20, 2004, 09:49am

I have a rather accurate count (from years of doing the clock/shot clock), but am often told that mine is too fast. Evaluators will say that consistency is best, and it's better to have a 12 second long backcourt count than one that is 8 seconds long.

ChuckElias · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 20, 2004, 02:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jdccpa
The instructor suggested that we practice our counting at home standing in front of the microwave oven.

HEY!! That's my suggestion to new guys! I want royalties from his camp income!!

ChuckElias · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 20, 2004, 02:45pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Evaluators will say that consistency is best, and it's better to have a 12 second long backcourt count than one that is 8 seconds long.

Yep, that's what they say. But even better is to keep an eye on the shot clock.

cmathews · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 20, 2004, 02:58pm

One that I have heard to respond to coaches, usually who are 3 second experts is this...you know coach every time I hear you count, or mention 3 seconds I lose count and have to start over again.....hmmmmmmm

Ron Pilo · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 20, 2004, 02:59pm

I will usually tell and coach every time I hear them counting I get all confused and have to start over........they usually get the message.....

DownTownTonyBrown · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 20, 2004, 04:10pm

I think my count is fairly accurate. I don't think I'm fast and if slow, only slightly. I personally want to reward the defense when they do a good job.

Several years back had a JV coach that always tried to egg me on. I'm counting the back court. I'm moving up the floor on tableside and waving my arm toward the middle of the court. I'm probably 10-15 feet from my favorite coach and at a count of about 6. He is up, with his feet on the court, and starts yelling at my partner (Lead, and a long ways away), "10. 11. Who's counting back court?"

He had already rubbed me the wrong way with some of his baiting comments. I'm now at a count of 8 and right in front of him. As I turn to face him from about 5 feet away, I blow my whistle - long and hard. He starts clapping as though I was going to call the back court violation.

Loudly, I state, "I'm counting. And I have a count of 8." Turning to the table, "Technical foul on the Coach. We're going to shoot two."

He grimaced and sat down. I don't know that he didn't see me but he was always a peckerhead and deserving of a lot more T's than he ever received.

It is fun to officiate at times!

JugglingReferee · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 20, 2004, 04:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jdccpa
I called two consecutive 5 second violations on a team one time. Their Coach called a time out and after the time out everytime they had the ball OOBs the whole team on the floor counted along with my arm motion. I thought it was good coaching on his part.

At one ref camp they told us to close our eyes and count 10 seconds, I happened to be the one with a watch with a second hand and was asked to keep the time, I got to see the twenty refs in the room count off the 10 seconds. No one had it right. Most came in at 15 seconds, four or five were still counting at twenty seconds.

The instructor suggested that we practice our counting at home standing in front of the microwave oven.

Before you start handing out Ts I would suggest that you are confident that your counting cadence is somewhat accurate,and never, never forget to start and keep the count when required, even if it looks like that point guard is going to make it over mid court in 3 seconds flat.

[Edited by jdccpa on Dec 20th, 2004 at 03:00 PM]

Back in the days when I coached, I had to drive to Cornwall for a tourney. That is a 7 hour drive. The radio is my car did not work, so eventually I decided to practice my 10 second count. Honest to God, I had it down to between 9.5 and 10.5. Of course now, I'm at about 11-12, which I think is best.

That's just proof that even practicing a count will improve.

ref18 · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 20, 2004, 09:36pm

This is just a question to anyone familliar with NBA mechanics.

Over years I've noticed that they don't do an 8 second back-court count.

Do they do it in their head, or are they supposed to use the shot clocks??

And Mike, how did you survive 7 hours without a radio. I start to loose it after a 10 minute drive with no music

ChuckElias · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 20, 2004, 10:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
This is just a question to anyone familliar with NBA mechanics.

Over years I've noticed that they don't do an 8 second back-court count.

Do they do it in their head, or are they supposed to use the shot clocks??

The 24-second clock is the sole determiner of when an 8-second violation occurs. The official does not have a count.