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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 29, 2002, 12:31pm
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Recreational League in Washington, DC- using the rules of the ASA except as otherwise provided by the league's Rules of Play.

Situation: Batter hits the ball into field of play, over outfield. Batter runs at a slow pace, rounding 2B heading to 3B. Throw comes to the 3B ahead of the runner, 3B positions themselves over the bag, and runner comes to the base, standing up, not attempting to slide. Third base takes throw and reaches around the runner who is still standing. 3B catches the ball "off the back" of the runner who never attempted to slide, ball directly to glove. 3B and runner are approximately 2 feet from base, 3B catches ball, applies tag- Base runner running into the third basemen, still no slide- 3B defenses base, makes catch and tag. ASA umpire makes SAFE call and stating runner was about to take the base and 3B interfereing with the runner.

Understanding: Defensive player entitled to defend the base and permitted to make attempt at fielding play. Runner should slide - safety...

What should the call have been: SAFE or OUT
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Old Mon Jul 29, 2002, 01:01pm
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Kind of hard to understand what you are saying, but If I do understand, 3rd baseman catches the ball while the glove is touching his back, and runner isn't on the base.

I got me an out. Go sit down stupid runner for being so lazy and not running for an easy triple.

Bob
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Old Mon Jul 29, 2002, 01:59pm
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I need a lot more help to visualize this and try to answer your question...

you say:

Quote:
Throw comes to the 3B ahead of the runner

then later:

Quote:
3B catches the ball "off the back" of the runner

Which is it? Did the 3B have the ball at third before the runner got there or did the throw from the outfield hit the runner in the back? This is critical information needed in order to answer your question.

Quote:
Understanding: Defensive player entitled to defend the base and permitted to make attempt at fielding play. Runner should slide - safety...

Your understanding is also incorrect. The defensive player may block access to the base only if he has or is about to receive the ball (about to defined as the ball being closer to the fielder than the runner is). The runner is not required to slide, he is only required to attempt to avoid contact.

This play is definitely a HTBT (had to be there), but your description is contradictory and makes it difficult to comment on what the umpire on the field may have been thinking.
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Old Mon Jul 29, 2002, 06:07pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by HawkandDove3B
Recreational League in Washington, DC- using the rules of the ASA except as otherwise provided by the league's Rules of Play.

Situation: Batter hits the ball into field of play, over outfield. Batter runs at a slow pace, rounding 2B heading to 3B. Throw comes to the 3B ahead of the runner, 3B positions themselves over the bag, and runner comes to the base, standing up, not attempting to slide. Third base takes throw and reaches around the runner who is still standing. 3B catches the ball "off the back" of the runner who never attempted to slide, ball directly to glove. 3B and runner are approximately 2 feet from base, 3B catches ball, applies tag- Base runner running into the third basemen, still no slide- 3B defenses base, makes catch and tag. ASA umpire makes SAFE call and stating runner was about to take the base and 3B interfereing with the runner.

Understanding: Defensive player entitled to defend the base and permitted to make attempt at fielding play. Runner should slide - safety...

What should the call have been: SAFE or OUT
I find it hard to believe that the fielder was positioned "over the bag" and reaches around the runner to catch the thrown ball and at that point in time both runner and fielder were 2 feet away from the base. There is something wrong with this scenario.

However, it sounds like the umpire ruled obstruction on the 3rd baseman. There is no rule requiring a runner to slide and the runner owns the path to the base until the defender receives or is about to receive the throw.

Sorry, Bob, you know I'm to damn anal to make the "out for being stupid" call

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Old Tue Jul 30, 2002, 06:11am
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Talking

Mike,

I kinda pictured this as the runner coasting into third, the 3rd baseman comming off the base to the left of the runner, the throw comming in,and the 3rd baseman catching the ball on the runners back. I know you have seen this play before. I really didn't picture obstruction. Like I said, runner out for being lazy going into third, and being tug before getting to the base. Not out for being stupid, but out for being tug before getting to the base because he was lazy.

Bob
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Old Tue Jul 30, 2002, 11:45am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Del-Blue
Mike,

I kinda pictured this as the runner coasting into third, the 3rd baseman comming off the base to the left of the runner, the throw comming in,and the 3rd baseman catching the ball on the runners back. I know you have seen this play before. I really didn't picture obstruction. Like I said, runner out for being lazy going into third, and being tug before getting to the base. Not out for being stupid, but out for being tug before getting to the base because he was lazy.

Bob
Okay, I can see that happening. Lazy, stupid, same thing

BTW, whatcha doin' this weekend?

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Old Tue Jul 30, 2002, 12:24pm
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Del-Blue
Mike,

I kinda pictured this as the runner coasting into third, the 3rd baseman comming off the base to the left of the runner, the throw comming in,and the 3rd baseman catching the ball on the runners back. I know you have seen this play before. I really didn't picture obstruction. Like I said, runner out for being lazy going into third, and being tug before getting to the base. Not out for being stupid, but out for being tug before getting to the base because he was lazy.

Bob
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply:

First- we wish to thank all for the input. The scenario is much closer to the picture as Del-Blue described. 3rd Base did come off the base at the last second to field the ball. The play concluded with the runner was trotting in, and the ball arriving- the runner had not yet touched the base.

Again- Del Blue captures the picture- The 3rd Baseman did reach for the ball to make the play - and as the ball hit the glove, the runner comes into contact with the 3rd Baseman's arm, geting hung up in the hook of the arm.

Runner had the tag applied, never touched base until Blue came out to make call- runner actually stopped going in to bag, base coach protested what he thought was to be an out call- then Blue makes Safe call.

Also: enclosed is the excerpt of our League Rules +/- ASA rules...

C. Rules of the Game

18. Any runner interfering with a fielder directly involved in a play shall be declared out. If a fielder not involved in the play obstructs a runner, the runner shall be awarded two bases from the last base touched. It is incumbent upon both the runner and the fielder to avoid a collision. If there is a play on a runner at a base, that runner must either slide into the base or surrender the play and leave the base path-runners may not run into fielders in an attempt to dislodge the ball. Fielders may not block a base, even if they have the ball in their possession.


Again, thanks all-

Hawk and Dove (Wash, D.C.)
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 30, 2002, 10:48pm
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"3B positions themselves".

How many fielders were playing 3B?

Bob
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