Out or safe?

[JRSooner]

I have a question. In our game tonight, our catcher had a ball thrown to him and a baserunner was coming home. Our catcher caught the throw and the runner comes in, the catcher makes the tag before the runner touches home when he's sliding in, but after the tag was made the catcher bobbles the ball, but he regains control of it and he never lets the ball hit the ground. The umpire called the runner safe even after checking to make sure the catcher did have control of the ball after the play was over which he did, he just called him safe because he didn't have control through the whole play. Was he right or wrong? One of the dads on our team is one of the head umpires in the umpire association here in this area, and he's umpired college and minor league games and he said that the umpire was wrong, but of course he is a little biased but I tend to agree with him as the only time I've ever seen a player called safe after a tag was made on him before he touched home was when the ball was rolling around on the ground. Thanks in advance!

[TxUmp]

It's like the catch of a fly ball. The catch is not complete until the player has complete control of the ball, AND voluntarily does something else with it (throws it, runs with it, puts it in his othe rhand, etc.) In your play, the catcher does not have control of the ball throughout the play. Runner is safe.

[greymule]

and he's umpired college and minor league games and he said that the umpire was wrong

It's hard to believe that somebody who umpired professional baseball would not know that if the catcher juggles the ball after the tag, the runner (assuming he touched the plate) is safe.

Either that guy was lying to get a call or lying about having umpired in the minors. My guess is the latter.

Incidentally, do not consider someone's having played professional baseball as much of a credential for knowing the rules, either. I know guys who played in the majors who would flunk any test we'd give them (and they admit it!).

[Delaware Blue]

Incidentally, do not consider someone's having played professional baseball as much of a credential for knowing the rules, either.

You only need to listen to Joe Morgan or Harold Reynolds do a game to prove that statement is true.

[JRSooner]

Thanks, guys. BTW, I've seen him ump several minor league games. I think it's more like his son's on the team and he was pitching at the time. That's why I would never ump one of my sons games, although I'd probably be harder on my son than more lenient. But I have to admit I guess I didn't know the rule too well either. However if you use the fly ball analogy our catcher would've had him out because the ball while it popped out of his glove, it never hit the ground. Being a Sooner fan I would compare it to a football play you may have seen, back in 2000 I believe when Andre Woolfolk was playing WR in the Nebraska game and the ball popped up after hitting his hands, he fell on his back and caught it while lying on his back. Except our catcher had control of the ball and when the ball popped out for him it didn't go very high in the air but he did re-catch the ball in his glove and have control of the ball afterward to do something with it after the play as you put it. Oh well, it didn't make too much of a difference in the game anyway, we still would've lost. Thanks again.

[3appleshigh]

I would look at it like this, a throw to first base where the first baseman bobles the ball but finishes the catch without the ball dropping, it is still a catch, but the safe / out is determined when he finishes the catch, not when he starts it. This is a situation that happens much more frequently and should make things a little more clear as we all know what the coach wants called in this instance. in short, You need control in order to make the tag to get the player out. If the ball is knocked loose it is no longer in control.