Call

[Dakota]

Were the players who assisted the other 2 runners?

[CecilOne]

Does the way "teammates joined in the batter's celebration a few feet up the first base line" constitute gathering to hinder the defense?

[mcrowder]

Are you out for being assisted during an awarded base?

[bluezebra]

First, there is no reference to what rules governed the game. Second, cite the rule that says an AWARDED base would not count if the B/R didn't legally attain 1B.

Bob

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

First, there is no reference to what rules governed the game. Second, cite the rule that says an AWARDED base would not count if the B/R didn't legally attain 1B.

Bob

Bob - only the BR is actually awarded a base. The forced runners are allowed to "advance without liability to be put out", but are not AWARDED their next base.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Bob - only the BR is actually awarded a base. The forced runners are allowed to "advance without liability to be put out", but are not AWARDED their next base.

Semantics. If a runner is allowed to "advance without liability to be put out", isn't that an 'award'?

Bob

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Semantics. If a runner is allowed to "advance without liability to be put out", isn't that an 'award'?

Bob

Even if a player is awarded a base, I don't believe that absolves them from the responsibilty of properly completing their base running duties. If the OP, the runner, although awarded first base, did not properly complete her base running responsibilities. Since the BR did not successfully reach first base before being declared out, the run can't score.

I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree with it.

[CelticNHBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Once you revealed this was professional ball, I was wondering about something like this.

It is certainly not a call that "sells" the game - to the casual fan, it would appear to be a bit arcane or technical, and it takes away the "obvious win."

MLB used to have a tradition to ignore this kind of situation, until it was actually called in a fairly important game - maybe even a world series??? I don't remember the details... even though I think they were posted here or one of the other umpire boards fairly recently.

I can recall when Mark McGuire broke the HR record (not to open another can of worms ) and, when celebrating at first base, was directed by the first base coach with a point (and a push?) to touch the base.

Not softball, but certainly a parallel situation. Was he 'assisted' to the base that he may have otherwise missed? I know that it wasn't called nor any objections registered by the defense.

I will say that, IMO, the call was correct. NPF follows NCAA rules with some modifications.

Rule 9, Sec10d - Coach Interference: A coach or anyone other than another runner... may not physically assist (e.g., touch, hold, push) a base runner while the ball is in play.

OP = bases loaded walk (ball is in play) and a player touches (forget about possibly directs/pushes) the BR to advance to first.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

First, there is no reference to what rules governed the game. ... snip ... Bob

Posted by "Johnny-one-rule".

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Posted by "Johnny-one-rule".

Agree with CecilOne, has to be ASA with Mike posting.....

[IRISHMAFIA]

A lot of quick responses. Let's move to the next step:

NPF, celebrating teammates were not the runners.

[bellnier]

Coaches guess...Not touching base is a live ball appeal and runners may advance; proper appeal should be by player with ball stepping on base, I think...run counts, game over(?). Notice my lack of conviction...

[ChampaignBlue]

I don't believe we have a live ball here, subsequently, unless the BR or one of the other Rs abandoned the field the run scores.

[SRW]

My stab:
Depends - is the ball live or not? (i.e.: is this SP or FP?)

Speaking ASA, FP
-An awarded base on balls is still a live ball (8.1.c.effect.1)
-There are no runners behind the BR, so in order to be assisted by another runner, someone had to have been passed. I have an out. (8.7.d)
-If the BR was assisted by anyone other than another runner, then I have an out. (8.7.e)

On to the next inning.


If SP,
-An awarded base on balls is a dead ball. (8.1.c.effects.2-4)
-Can't call an out on passing the runner, since the ball is dead. 8.7.d
-Assisting the runner only applies to a live ball situation, so no out here. (8.7.e)

Count the run. Game over.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by SRW

-There are no runners behind the BR, so in order to be assisted by another runner, someone had to have been passed. I have an out.

I thought about that but R3 would be coming over from 2B and and R2 from 3B All they are doing is establishing a very unusual base path. If they returned to the position between home and 1B by retouching their previously occupied bases and ended up behind the BR, then she passed them otherwise, I don't think so. That is why I put that it would be very TW in the other post.