Call

[IRISHMAFIA]

Bases loaded, two outs, tied score,10th inning.

Ball four is called on the batter who proceeds to celebrate. PU steps around to the front of the plate to watch R1 score while her teammates joined in the batter's celebration a few feet up the first base line.

Defense coach approaches the plate umpire and protests that the BR never touched 1B. Okay, DMC, should have waited.

When the celebrating players hear the coach, a couple shove the batter toward 1B.

Your call. Game over or are you going to the 11th?

[MNBlue]

What time is it and do I need a bathroom break? LOL

I hope I didn't see the assist (once again, kidding), but if I did, I'm taking the out, since it sounds like an assisted runner.

Play on.

[rodan55]

Going to the 11th, 12th..... BR out on runner assistance, not reaching 1B safely, no runs score.

[Dakota]

Were the players who assisted the other 2 runners?

[CecilOne]

Does the way "teammates joined in the batter's celebration a few feet up the first base line" constitute gathering to hinder the defense?

[mcrowder]

Are you out for being assisted during an awarded base?

[bluezebra]

First, there is no reference to what rules governed the game. Second, cite the rule that says an AWARDED base would not count if the B/R didn't legally attain 1B.

Bob

[bellnier]

Coaches guess...Not touching base is a live ball appeal and runners may advance; proper appeal should be by player with ball stepping on base, I think...run counts, game over(?). Notice my lack of conviction...

[tcblue13]

Speaking Fed
The BR is out
8-6-5
A runner is out when anyone other than another runner physically assists the runner while the ball is in play

Granted, this does not refer to a BR but other rules in 8-6 are applied to BR's so I would apply this one as well

To answer Dakota's question, If the other 2 runners were the ones assisting I suppose she is safe. That scenario seems so TW though.

I sort of pictured that exception to mean a trailing runner can help someone to her feet or push her to the next base in the event of a fall or a lapse in running.

[bellnier]

I interpreted the OP as runner on 3rd scoring before batter was 'assisted'. Play still live. Run counts. Runner then was assisted...runner out. Doesn't chronology count in this sitch?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by bellnier

I interpreted the OP as runner on 3rd scoring before batter was 'assisted'. Play still live. Run counts. Runner then was assisted...runner out. Doesn't chronology count in this sitch?

Nope. BR always needs to legally attain first base for any runs to score, unless there's a special league rule regarding BR's not having to run out home runs.

[wadeintothem]

Seems to me if you werent quick enough to yell "ball game" and beat feet during a celebration - ya gotta ring up the br and prepare for a new inning.
BR is out (INT)
The run doesnt count due to out at 1B

even if not, would be out on appeal. So the BR is out 6 ways from sunday but either way

You are screwed

Thats my guess.

[mcrowder]

I think that by the book this is a clear cut out.

I also understand that by all standards of fairness, most umpires would not WANT to call this out, and for good reason.

My only question that might give us some wiggleroom here is the word "assist". During an awarded base, is a gentle shove in the general direction of the awarded base really assisting? Absent a printed definition in the rulebook we are left to using dictionary definitions of words. Assisting someone is aiding them in achieving a goal. Since this is an awarded base, and BR was not debilitated in any way, could it be determined (within the framework of umpire judgement at least) by the umpire that such a shove, even if in the right direction, was not assisting the runner? IOW, did the shove actually help the runner achieve the base? Would it not have been just as easy for the runner to achieve the base if the shove was in the wrong direction? Was anything actually done during said shove to actually ASSIST here?

I don't know --- I'm just throwing that out there.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by bellnier

I interpreted the OP as runner on 3rd scoring before batter was 'assisted'. Play still live. Run counts. Runner then was assisted...runner out. Doesn't chronology count in this sitch?

Bell ... if the BR is out, then no runs score. No run can score on a play where the 3rd out is made on the BR prior to reaching first base or any other runner on a force play.

The question is ... is the runner out for being assisted in this sitch.

To me, all indicators lead toward a yes, and an 11th inning. But Mike has been accused of trickery in the past, and there may be something else to this.

(Note - I don't believe Passing is at all at issue here).

[AtlUmpSteve]

I think it is as simple as it appears. No run can score if 3rd out is batter-runner not safely reaching first; and it seems clear that BR was illegally assisted. In softball, we have a new inning.

I believe baseball states all forced runners are also awarded the next base (as opposed to may advance without liability to be put out UNLESS....). That may be where bluezebra Bob got his thought process.