Good Call / Bad Call

whiskers_ump · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 13, 2002, 10:18pm

Game really a runaway. Visitors leading by touchdown and
safety..Hometeam batting in bottom of 5th. One out one on,
batter hits one well out of the park. In running the bases
she is leaping, jumping, missing 2B and removes her helmet
between 2nd and 3rd. When she crosses the plate and new
ball placed into the game, pitcher properly appeals that the
second runner missed second. I am plate so advised the BU
of appeal. Naturally he did not see it. Then the defensive
coach ask me "since the batter removed her helmet in
live ball action, and you issued them a previous warning,
isn't she out?" "No coach, at the end of playing action I
will restrict her to the dugout and get a replacement."

My question is, "How many of you would have Looked the other
way on the home run? After the game, My partner
said he saw clearly that the runner had missed second and
was not about to take away from her expereience of
belting one out of the park

Really wondering what I would have done! I have always tried
to adhere to the rules regardless, but may be food for some
thought in this situation. Nah, you can't look the other way.
I am sure he made her day though. Makes me wonder what she
would have thought of my call???

How would you have handled this?

BTW That was the only runs that they scored.

glen

IRISHMAFIA · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 13, 2002, 10:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Game really a runaway. Visitors leading by touchdown and
safety..Hometeam batting in bottom of 5th. One out one on,
batter hits one well out of the park. In running the bases
she is leaping, jumping, missing 2B and removes her helmet
between 2nd and 3rd. When she crosses the plate and new
ball placed into the game, pitcher properly appeals that the
second runner missed second. I am plate so advised the BU
of appeal. Naturally he did not see it. Then the defensive
coach ask me "since the batter removed her helmet in
live ball action, and you issued them a previous warning,
isn't she out?" "No coach, at the end of playing action I
will restrict her to the dugout and get a replacement."

My question is, "How many of you would have Looked the other
way on the home run? After the game, My partner
said he saw clearly that the runner had missed second and
was not about to take away from her expereience of
belting one out of the park

Really wondering what I would have done! I have always tried
to adhere to the rules regardless, but may be food for some
thought in this situation. Nah, you can't look the other way.
I am sure he made her day though. Makes me wonder what she
would have thought of my call???

How would you have handled this?

BTW That was the only runs that they scored.

glen

Your partner needs to get out of umpiring and get into coaching. Unless his name is Fred Rogers, he is not on that field to make sure everyone in the neighborhood feels happy.

Did he accept money to blatantly NOT do his job? If that team came back to win the game? Do you think your partner would have been stupid enough to open his mouth and tell you he intentionally let it go?

Everyone on this board knows I'm anal about the rules, but that is because there are TWO teams paying for you to be on that field and both deserve the most professional game you can give them. Your partner may have thought his gesture was harmless, but you are out on the field with him and there are people who know he kicked the call. Intergrity, and the lack of it, usually seems to be contageous even if only by association.

oppool · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 14, 2002, 12:20am

No Mike, Glen wanted to know how you really feel

Just kidding, I would have to agree I would call the out might not feel too good about it but the kid will always know she hit it over anyway that is what really mattered

JMO

Don

Dakota · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 14, 2002, 01:23am

I gotta make this call. My integrity is worth more to me than any "feel good" outcome.

Regarding the helmet, the ASA casebook clarifies that since the intent of the rule is to prevent injury, if there is no play possible, there is no infraction. Quoting from the RULING section on a play where a runner removed his helmet while running the bases on a home run (play 3.5-7)

... Runners should not be called out for removing the helmet on a home run that is hit out of the park.

Steve M · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 14, 2002, 07:45am

Add my agreement, too. On the topic of rules, integrity, and so on - there are some rules and interps that I really do not like. And that's in all sanctioning bodies. Problem is, the powers that be didn't care what I thought when the rules were written. So if I want to work a Fed game, I'd better call it according to their rules - same for ASA, NCAA, and everyone else. I'm not there to make a player feel good or even to make things right or fair. I'm there to call the game according to the rules.

With the helmet removal, I think Fed is a bit different, so the warning or restriction would be warranted there.

greymule · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 14, 2002, 09:45am

Last year in a Fed softball game I called a girl out for missing third on a home run. Her team was way ahead, too. The girl was ecstatic, her parents were cheering, the other girls were all hugging her. But the defense appealed--what else could I do?

But a lesson might be drawn from another play: also last year, when Fed baseball still had their non-appeal appeal, a runner failed to touch home. I wasn't going to say anything, because his run made the score 7-1 in the top of the 5th. But I heard the defensive coach say, "Jimmy, appeal home." So since there were no appeals, I just called the runner out. I felt bad for the kid.

However, the final score of that game was 7-6, with the last out at home plate on an attempt at an inside-the-park home run. Ignoring the infraction could have changed the outcome, even though it didn't seem likely at the time.

Skahtboi · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 14, 2002, 10:26am

Ditto here as far as enforcing the rules. I, too, am wondering how your partner can justify accepting his pay at the end of the day when he knows that he conciously chose not to do the job that he is being paid for.

Scott

Elaine "Lady Blue" · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 14, 2002, 11:07am

Sorry, your partner was wrong. I would have felt bad, but rules are rules. I had a girl hit one out of the park with bases loaded and the 4 runs would have won the game. But, unfortunately she stepped on the plate at contact. Dead ball, batter out! The fans almost called the crooked nose guys for a contract on me. I had to get escorts to make it safely to my van. But, looking back, I wouldn't have changed a thing.

bluezebra · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 14, 2002, 01:19pm

"With the helmet removal, I think Fed is a bit different, so the warning or restriction would be warranted there."

In FED, there is NO penalty or warning for removing the helmet when the ball is not live. On a home run hit over the fence, the ball is NOT live.

Bob

whiskers_ump · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 14, 2002, 04:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bluezebra
"With the helmet removal, I think Fed is a bit different, so the warning or restriction would be warranted there."

In FED, there is NO penalty or warning for removing the helmet when the ball is not live. On a home run hit over the fence, the ball is NOT live.

Bob

Bob,

As usual you are correct. Case Book 1.1.6. Situation E:

I did impose an incorrect penalty on the batter by the rule
stated above. :0

Mike,

You almost got the guys name right. Not Fred and honestly
we have three Roger's in our association, Fred, Dave and
Kevin.

glen

Elaine "Lady Blue" · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 14, 2002, 05:21pm

Glen,

Glad to see your post.

How's the back?

whiskers_ump · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 14, 2002, 08:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Elaine "Lady Blue"
Glen,

Glad to see your post. How's the back?

Lady Blue,
You women been hiding these epidural shots from the guys
way too long. That is what I opt for at this point. If
it continues working this good, I will just have another
everytime I am in pain.

Thanks for asking.

glen

Gulf Coast Blue · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 14, 2002, 09:27pm

If the miss was by a "whisker" and I mean by a "whisker".........I may have seen the touch.........

But in your sitch............gotta call it........

There was a HS girl here a few years ago...........(during the time of the automatic appeal)......glen you probably remember her.........

Dee Williams..........outfielder for a team we communicated about.........

She was slick and could cut the corner on bases without touching to gain an advantage........

She was smart enough to know what umpires she could pull this off on and who she couldn't............

I believe she is playing for LSU now.......

Joel

Art N · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 16, 2002, 01:09am

Silly question (from a non-softball umpire)... Don't you think that maybe the rules regarding a runner touching all the on a homerun should be changed? The ball (like Elvis) has left the building,er park, right? Why do we have this rule to begin with? I know it's in baseball too and has been around since Fred Flintstone was playing. I'll stand back now and listen to the logic and fury.

Steve M · #15 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 16, 2002, 07:19am

Art,
Maybe it is picky. But, it's required because the requirement to touch all bases is not excluded. Are you really asking umpires to ignore this rule and every other rule that we might think it too picky? What you think is too picky might be different than what I think is too picky - what do we do with that? And if that's the case, why have a rule book 'cuz we don't have any standards if that's what we do. So, maybe it is best that we umpires do not decide which rules to ignore and enforce them all - regardless of the sport.