Illegal Pitch Mechanics-ASA

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by commteacher

If you do call the runner out she may just trot off to the dugout and never receivce the entitled award. DDB, Hold all runners make appropriate awards.

You always make the call you see unless you are the umpire who called OBS and then it's just "dead ball".

All is irrelevant as the ball is going to be ruled dead anyhow, so the runner can enter whatever area they choose.

[kycat1]

Is this slow pitch or fast? In slow pitch the ball is still alive for runners to try to steal a base if they want. Isn't this correct. What are you talking about awarding a base?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by kycat1

Is this slow pitch or fast? In slow pitch the ball is still alive for runners to try to steal a base if they want. Isn't this correct. What are you talking about awarding a base?

Both. A DDB(delayed dead ball) means that no action is stopped until necessary.

[Bmorebirdflu52]

I disagree with most of the post but agree with first post. Here is my reasoning. Since it's delayed dead ball other than illegal pitch mechanics, you did 100 percent right. I work with partners all the time that annoy me with thinking they are right no matter what. We are a brotherhood and should respect we are different but instead of proving him wrong. Ask a question. We have to dance around mens egos. So ask this question. If you don't allow play to happen and call the play the way it happened then how can offensive have choice. If your partner is right then it would be dead ball immediately. If u make no call for stollen base how can offensive choose to take penalty or play. If the runner is safe offensive will take play of runner is out then they take penalty. That's the exact point of it being delayed dead ball. Again ask yourself what's the point of delay dead ball if you make no call on the play. Let the play unfold then sort it out. You did it 100 percent correctly and refuse to believe different. When looking at the rule as a whole it makes no sense to do it any other way. Now if you have a partner that refuses to follow the rules I would simply refuse to work with them since they can make your job harder. If you did not call the runner out then the offense has to choice then there is no reason to have the rule written the way it is. All delayed deal balls are called after the play is over and all other mechanics and calls happen as normal until the end of the play then it's dead and sorted out. Hope that helps​

[AtlUmpSteve]

Several issues here.

The partner is, as occasionally happens, literally correct in the exact wording in the manual; the problem is, as if most often is with those that only accept the exact literal direction, that the manual direction is flawed. It doesn't take into account a play which rightfully must extend the DDB period without the ball being batted!! So, I'm not refusing to work with him, nor will I continue to argue with him. I'm calling it as I believe it should be called, and if he kills the live ball, he can explain that to whichever coach he has to deal with.

Nor is either possible mechanic at the end of the play free of issues; we have heard both sides here, while the manual is unclear. My personal opinion falls on the side of treating it the same as obstruction; if I called the IP (or heard it and know it happened), I'm calling a dead ball, not an out; but also clearly NOT calling the runner safe. Then when the dust clears, I am LOUDLY and clearly announcing to the offensive coach (in USA/ASA and NFHS) the option of the result of the play (your runner would be OUT, and you get the result of the pitch call), or the enforcement of the IP (it's a ball on your batter and each runner is awarded one base). I am also facing the defensive coach and bench while verbalizing this LOUDLY, as his hearing exactly what is happening is the key to moving forward.

In NCAA (I did specify USA/ASA and NFHS), I am directed to tell the PU, and the PU gets to notify the coaches of the option, instead of the BU that made the call. If the PU called the IP, and I'm unaware, I call the out, and he can/should address the option and place the runner back on base. YES, even if she left the field (as she SHOULD when I call her out).

Just how I would handle it; I'm sure others could handle it differently.

[IRISHMAFIA]

11 years! Wow!

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

11 years! Wow!

Ha! I thought I was a lurker! For those who are unaware, OP's last activity on the forum was 2006.

Back to the topic, Steve nails it on the head. Even though the ASA/USA manual literally says kill it after action is completed on THE PITCH or the resulting BATTED BALL, it ignores the possibility of a live ball play following the pitch. IMO, based on the POE covering delayed dead balls, a throw on a stealing runner from F2 is a continuation of the play, if you're willing to accept the notion that a pitch is a play. Do not kill the ball until all play on the live pitch is stopped, and only then enforce the DDB and any penalties.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Nor is either possible mechanic at the end of the play free of issues; we have heard both sides here, while the manual is unclear. My personal opinion falls on the side of treating it the same as obstruction; if I called the IP (or heard it and know it happened), I'm calling a dead ball, not an out; but also clearly NOT calling the runner safe. Then when the dust clears, I am LOUDLY and clearly announcing to the offensive coach (in USA/ASA and NFHS) the option of the result of the play (your runner would be OUT, and you get the result of the pitch call), or the enforcement of the IP (it's a ball on your batter and each runner is awarded one base). I am also facing the defensive coach and bench while verbalizing this LOUDLY, as his hearing exactly what is happening is the key to moving forward.

Do you actually ask for options in an ASA game when the choice is obvious? Or would you treat it more like a football penalty and only ask if there was a good reason too?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by youngump

Do you actually ask for options in an ASA game when the choice is obvious? Or would you treat it more like a football penalty and only ask if there was a good reason too?

In most such cases, I say something like "I know it seems obvious, but the rule requires me to offer you the option of ...... or .........". In this or a similar case that the general populace won't understand, I would absolutely do it, because it is the best "game management" tool available, where everyone can understand the (otherwise confusing) result.