Coach bringing a rule book on the field....

[dsimp8]

First of all,you don't bring a rule book and/or by-laws onto my field. The league that we call in (Rec league-adult and youth)states in the by-laws that a coach can bring the by-laws and rule book on the field. This was not in the by-laws that our assoc. looked over for approval. The league director said that we shouldn't have a problem with a coach bringing the rules on the field if we are doing our job correctly. The problem I have with it is you are trying to show me up.
We ,as an assoc have made the decision to ignore that rule and IF a coach comes on the field with either one of these....he/she is gone.

What would you do if A)this "rule" was slipped in at the last moment w/o your assoc knowing it and B)if a coach brings the rule book and/or by-laws on the field?

[LIIRISHMAN]

Your problem would come from not getting assignments in future games. League directors can be vindictive and may "blackball" a umpire if they wish too. This is the real world. Could you ask your association leader to approach the league in regards to this matter.I don't know how you could officiate a game under these circumstances.I would have no problem answering a coaches question on a rule.If he questions my interpetation that's when he may be leaving early!

[dsimp8]

The league doesn't control who gets assigned to games, our association does.Our ASA District Commisioner has told us he would back us up if we eject someone for this rule. We have a contract with the league and have been calling for this group for over 30 years.

I am the VP of our Assoc and myself and the Pres had a meeting with the director who said that he wasn't changing anything.
Granted,we don't have many incidents that warrant ejections but this rule may give the coaches some bravado until they walk out on the field with it and they get tossed.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by dsimp8

What would you do if A)this "rule" was slipped in at the last moment w/o your assoc knowing it?

The league administration decides what rules they will play by and what adoptions they will make. The umpires simply enforce those rules. If you don't like or agree with the league rules, don't umpire games for that league.

Originally Posted by dsimp8

B)if a coach brings the rule book and/or by-laws on the field?

There has been some disagreement on this board in the past about a coach bringing a rulebook on the field. My feeling is that a coach can bring a rulebook and/or bylaws on the field without showing up the umpire.

If a coach comes out of the dugout screaming that you blew a call and waving a rulebook/bylaws around, s/he gets ejected.

If the coach approaches you respectfully and asks about a call or rule interpretation with the rulebook/bylaws in his back pocket then, after calm discussion, offers to produce the documentation to review, I do not have a problem with that.

As far as I am concerned, it is the actions of the coach that determine an ejection, not the fact that s/he caries a book on the field.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by dsimp8

First of all,you don't bring a rule book and/or by-laws onto my field.

YOUR field? You own the field? If not, it isn't your field or your game. Those belong to the teams, not you or your assn.

The league that we call in (Rec league-adult and youth)states in the by-laws that a coach can bring the by-laws and rule book on the field. This was not in the by-laws that our assoc. looked over for approval. The league director said that we shouldn't have a problem with a coach bringing the rules on the field if we are doing our job correctly. The problem I have with it is you are trying to show me up.

Despite the fact the LD doesn't have a clue, your assumption is not always true.

We ,as an assoc have made the decision to ignore that rule and IF a coach comes on the field with either one of these....he/she is gone.

The only valid decision your assn. has to make is whether you are working that leagues games or not. If you chose to not work the league because of this disagreement, so be it. However, to accept the assignments and attached remuneration for the service provided, you call what the league tells you to call. After all, they're the customer, not you.

What would you do if A)this "rule" was slipped in at the last moment w/o your assoc knowing it and B)if a coach brings the rule book and/or by-laws on the field?

As noted, the assn. has only two choices. Depending on what the assn. decides on the first issue determines if the second is even a discussion.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by dsimp8

First of all,you don't bring a rule book and/or by-laws onto my field. The league that we call in (Rec league-adult and youth)states in the by-laws that a coach can bring the by-laws and rule book on the field. This was not in the by-laws that our assoc. looked over for approval. The league director said that we shouldn't have a problem with a coach bringing the rules on the field if we are doing our job correctly. The problem I have with it is you are trying to show me up.
We ,as an assoc have made the decision to ignore that rule and IF a coach comes on the field with either one of these....he/she is gone.

What would you do if A)this "rule" was slipped in at the last moment w/o your assoc knowing it and B)if a coach brings the rule book and/or by-laws on the field?

Don't be so sensitive, it's Rec League ball.

If your league by-laws state that a coach can bring the by-laws and rule book to the field then just live with it.....or don't work the games. Are you guys worried that the coach may show you up by proving that you mis-applied a rule?

Know the rules forward and backward, apply the rules correctly and you have nothing to fear from the evil coach armed with a rule book

[AtlUmpSteve]

I agree completely with Andy. The act of bringing a rulebook or by-laws on the field doesn't show me up. How it is done is the issue.

If a coach comes out to ask you a question, does so in a completely calm and polite manner, discusses and leaves, are you shown up? Now, suppose you discover, as he turns away, that he had a rulebook in his back pocket the whole time; is that an ejection?

[Skahtboi]

I think that Mike spelled it out pretty clearly. I agree that you as an independent contractor or your association can refuse to work the games, but if you accept the games, then you should enforce the rules that you are being paid to enforce. We don't get to pick and choose what rules we want or don't want in the game.

[CecilOne]

I'd be happy to meet a coach who had a rule book.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I'd be happy to meet a coach who had a rule book.

I know of quite a few, especially at the collegiate and high school levels.

Now....getting them to open them is a horse of a different color.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I agree completely with Andy. The act of bringing a rulebook or by-laws on the field doesn't show me up. How it is done is the issue.

If a coach comes out to ask you a question, does so in a completely calm and polite manner, discusses and leaves, are you shown up? Now, suppose you discover, as he turns away, that he had a rulebook in his back pocket the whole time; is that an ejection?

The coach has the book turned open to a page that s/he "believes" supports the argument at hand. However, too often the coach hasn't turned the page or isn't aware that the parameters of the play do not apply to the call made, etc. I do not want to put on a clinic researching a rule book in the middle of the field. I will not reference the book no matter what the coach is trying to point out.

If s/he wants to file a protest, give me the scorebook, I've already got a pen.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by dsimp8

First of all,you don't bring a rule book and/or by-laws onto my field. The league that we call in (Rec league-adult and youth)states in the by-laws that a coach can bring the by-laws and rule book on the field. This was not in the by-laws that our assoc. looked over for approval. The league director said that we shouldn't have a problem with a coach bringing the rules on the field if we are doing our job correctly. The problem I have with it is you are trying to show me up.
We ,as an assoc have made the decision to ignore that rule and IF a coach comes on the field with either one of these....he/she is gone.

What would you do if A)this "rule" was slipped in at the last moment w/o your assoc knowing it and B)if a coach brings the rule book and/or by-laws on the field?

The topic of coaches bringing rulebooks onto the field has come up many times on internet forums and discussions. There is an obvious consensus that coaches should not be permitted to do this.

I guess I'm one of the few umpires that could care less whether the coach brings the rulebook out on the field. I am not going to allow him to filibuster the game and start reading from it - so it's completely academic.

Every time I've had a coach bring the rulebook out and try to make a point it is much easier to explain to him why he's wrong. He usually gets embarrassed and that's the last time you'll see that rulebook.

Umpires who make a big deal out of this issue appear to be scared of the rulebook. I've known umpires who have actually ejected coaches for nothing more than SIMPLY bringing the rulebook out. That's ridiculous!

This happened to me several years ago in a 16U ASA tournament game:

The games were being timed. The home team was at bat and losing as the final minutes were winding down. The scoreboard actually had a timer on it so there was going to be no doubt about when time expired. The tournament rules stated that if ANY time remained on the clock at the end of an inning, another inning had to played. The team at-bat was down by 2 runs. There were two outs and no runners on base. We were now down to under 1 minute and only seconds were being displayed. The defense had already done an incredible amount of stalling and now the pitcher was deliberately throwing balls. The batter finally walked across the plate, to the other batter's box, as the pitcher was beginning to pitch. I immediately called her out.

We had to play another inning.

Between innings, the coach of the team that was up by two runs was irrate. He was convinced that the batter should not have been called out for that action. He brought the rulebook with him and he stated something to the effect, "I'm looking in the section under THE BATTER IS OUT WHEN ... and I don't see anything about the batter being out for doing that. I don't see it anywhere! There is no such rule. She's not out. She should still be batting with the time expired."

All I said, "I'm glad you have the rulebook with you, coach. You should go in the dugout and read where it discusses 'batting position' in section 7."

I didn't hear another peep out of him. I never even made eye contact with the rulebook as he approached me.

I say, never let them see you sweat. Overreacting to the rulebook, or making a point that the rulebook must disappear, makes it look like you're sweating, in my opinion.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN