How to handle on-field pitching machine/coach?

[dbrotsky]

I'm president of an ASA-affiliated, recreational girls' fastpitch league (http://abgsl.org) that uses a batting rule modification at 10U: after four balls against a girl pitcher, the batter completes the at-bat (maintaining strike count) against a spring-loaded pitching machine with an adult operator. As the batting machine is a permanent fixture in the field (throwing from 40' while the girls throw from 35'), we have a number of accompanying rules modifications (no steals of second, e.g.) to avoid situations where the machine is likely to be directly in the path of play.

We have used this approach for several years and are quite happy with it; it keeps play lively even with beginning pitchers, and the no-steal-second rule keeps the middle infield play an important part of the game. However, we go back and forth on how to treat the machine and the operator with respect to incidental interference with batted and thrown balls. (Mostly batted balls, as it's a very rare occurence, now that we don't have steals of second, for a thrown ball to hit the machine.) One school of thought is to treat the machine (and operator) as an obstruction: a batted or thrown ball that hits it is dead and treated as a no-pitch. (This is simple but can be very frustrating - most of the balls that hit the machine are well struck and they are often barely deflected.) Another is to treat it more as part of the playing field: balls that hit the machine are in play and fair. (This is more satisfying but much harder to officiate.)

We have great respect for the expertise and experience we see on this forum, and would appreciate any thoughts senior members might have about how to handle this situation, both from the point of view of keeping the ball live and keeping the call understandable. We are hoping you might have an approach that has eluded us that blends those two considerations in a better way. Thanks in advance for any help!

Dan Brotsky

[wadeintothem]

I dont want you to take this the wrong way..

but when you are inventing rules.. there is no right or wrong way to do it.. sort it out amongst your board members.

I've never heard of that proceedure you have in use at 10U and I personnally think you are short changing everyone doing it the way you are. Coaches pitch @ 8U is fine. .. if you really think your girls cant pitch, just use coaches at 10U and forget this big mess youve created.

Thats my .02.. but since you like it - do whatever you want, there is no right or wrong way to invent your own stuff.

[dbrotsky]

Not taken the wrong way at all. In general I couldn't agree more and we still have debates about whether this promotes pitcher development or not. But for better or worse this system has stuck so we're happy to take the arrows as well as the suggestions :-).

[debeau]

It is permanent and part of the game treat it as such .
Ball is alive of the machine

[SC Ump]

I agree that in the spirit of fun play, it should be treated as "in play". But the more important question is safety. That is a question that you need to answer. Could a player diving for the ball near the machine be at unnecessary risk of injury? Does the machine have parts that could injure? These are the types of questions that need to be ask.

If the machine is well padded and free of sharp parts, I would probably think it best to just let it be in play, as long as the ball did not get stuck in on of the pads.

[rhsc]

I just hope I dont have to get creative like that to play a softball game.
Too much risk, if I were a coach/parent/official there, I believe I would have told them if there is close play near the machine, leave it go until your sure you can make a play on it without getting hurt. Call me over-protective, but I aint tryin to be responsible for somebody getting hurt.

[dbrotsky]

Originally posted by SC Ump
I agree that in the spirit of fun play, it should be treated as "in play". But the more important question is safety.

Originally posted by rhsc I believe I would have told them if there is close play near the machine, leave it go until your sure you can make a play on it without getting hurt.

Parallels our thinking exactly. When we first tried this, the operator was always a coach and always on the field and always charged with keeping girls away from the machine. And the ball was declared dead precisely so that girls would not dive for balls near the machine.

In practice, no one has ever gotten hurt, or even come close. Well, except the adult operators! (They have pulled all sorts of muscles trying to get out of the way of the ball...) Last two years we only had operators when the machine was in use, and they didn't have to be coaches. Still no problems.

So this year, we are trying to handle it as a field fixture: the ball remains in play unless trapped by the machine. We are hoping to rely on the umpires to make that call and position runners appropriately, as we would if the ball got trapped under a temporary pitcher's plate or a base or an umpire (although I've never seen that happen). That's one of the reasons we came to this forum, to get advice about how "trapped ball" rules and rulings make sense when they might come into play on balls in the infield that have not yet passed a fielder other than the pitcher.

[FUBLUE]

Here's my .01 worth (sorry, I'm poor...I umpire!)

If it hits the machine, doesn't get trapped, play it.

If it gets trapped under the machine, play it like you would a "pitcher" getting hit with a batted ball to the extend that she falls down. Normally, I would kill this situation (line drive to pitchers stomach--saw two in a national last year in one game--she dropped like a rock) and apply the necessary rule. Point of Emphasis #29 in 2005 rule book.

This gives you a basis for judgment as an umpire...if the ball is trapped (or maybe even just sitting really close to machine--inside a small circle perhaps), kill it and award as an injured player situation (POE 29) would deem necessary.

Then again, it is your rule, so create whatever you want. I'm just throwing stuff out here.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Apparently, the pitching machine must be used at lower levels - 8U? I guess, I would treat a ball that hits the machine the same as is done for the other league (8U).

I don't know what that methodology is - probably a live ball; machine and operator are a part of the field.

After all, you have made these changes to the game so there will be more playing action and fewer walks (none). I would recommend maintaining that purpose and keeping the ball live.

As you well realize: as the girls get older they are also more athletic and able to move farther during a play; the chance of one of them running into the machine to catch a fly ball is greater. Stronger hits are also more likely than at younger ages, and a hit ball could unexpectedly ricochet from the machine into a player potentially causing injury. Adult operators have lost much of their youthful mobility; they are probably more likely to get hit or fall into the machine due to the potentially stronger hits and their possibly decreased athleticism.

From my unexperienced reasoning, it sounds like the game may have more playing action but the league may also be unintentionally creating some additional risk for participants. The game may be better until someone gets hurt due to the extra equipment... and then a lawsuit might be likely.

JMHO, Tony