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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 03, 2003, 05:39pm
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Following the Georgia incident the thought of having the Rule Book available on the field comes up again.

I am interested in knowing how many already have a Rule Book readily available.

Have you ever used a Rule Book to correct a misapplication.

Do you think having the Rule Book available is going to satisfy a stubborn coach.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 03, 2003, 08:22pm
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we give a rulebook to the chain gang to hold for us, so far i have not used it.
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Old Wed Dec 03, 2003, 09:04pm
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I've never taken a rule book out to the field with me and I don't believe anyone on any of my crews has ever done so. If it can be done discreetly then I suppose it's OK, but no official actually working the game should have one on his/her person.
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Old Wed Dec 03, 2003, 09:05pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ed Hickland
Following the Georgia incident the thought of having the Rule Book available on the field comes up again.

I am interested in knowing how many already have a Rule Book readily available.

Have you ever used a Rule Book to correct a misapplication.

Do you think having the Rule Book available is going to satisfy a stubborn coach.
I keep all my books in my bag. That way I can check on a rule or mechanic at the half or after the game. NEVER would I have it on me during the game . As far as a stubborn coach goes, he's just going to have to trust me.
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Old Wed Dec 03, 2003, 09:38pm
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It seems to me that the rulebook on the field is just asking for trouble. If you look up one thing, then the coaches will likely ask after every call that you look it up. The rulebook is a little like having a bull's eye on you in my opinion.

Avoid one replay, have a thousand arguements with coaches. I guess it is a tough call.

Finally, it sounds like the officials screwed up in Georgia, and re-reading the rulebook likely would not have helped. If you misread the situation, correctly reading the rulebook would not help much.
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Old Wed Dec 03, 2003, 11:17pm
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what do you do if a coach wants a time out for a rule interpretation? he is entitled to one, even if he is wrong, he will be then charged a timeout. if you just dont have the answer, you cant run in the locker room to get the rule book. no one will even know if you have a rule book on the field, you are not broadcasting it. i have never had to use it, but i am sure there will be a time when we will need it. if the coach feels he is correct, he is not just going to take your word, he wants to see it in writing. i feel he would be entitled to see the rule for himself. i feel most people dont want a rule book on the field because they dont want to be proven wrong if a situation should arise. we have to be more accountable for our actions. it comes down to having confidence in ourself.
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Old Wed Dec 03, 2003, 11:25pm
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I agree with the above, that having the rulebook out there is trouble waiting to happen. If you just show him one rule (without definitions, etc.) things will be taken way out of context, and it really may look like you are wrong (imagine showing someone a kicking rule without them really knowing the definition of a kick). If you wanted to be thorough about it you may have to show him a few definitions and a couple of other rules. Not only would this halt the game for a while, but you still may not get anywhere in expanding the coach's understanding of the matter. I believe that the coach will just have to trust you at the time and at some point after the game your association can provide him with the relevant rules for any interpretations he questions.
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Old Wed Dec 03, 2003, 11:32pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by hab_in_exile
It seems to me that the rulebook on the field is just asking for trouble. If you look up one thing, then the coaches will likely ask after every call that you look it up. The rulebook is a little like having a bull's eye on you in my opinion.

Avoid one replay, have a thousand arguements with coaches. I guess it is a tough call.

Finally, it sounds like the officials screwed up in Georgia, and re-reading the rulebook likely would not have helped. If you misread the situation, correctly reading the rulebook would not help much.
Regarding the Georgia debacle. I corresponded with one of the reporters covering the story. It was a live ball personal foul but enforced as a dead ball personal. Was the difference between 3/18 or 1/10 deep in the offender's territory. The coach requested a timeout and argued the misapplication. A simple glance at the book and the story would have never been told.
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Old Thu Dec 04, 2003, 12:57am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ed Hickland
Quote:
Originally posted by hab_in_exile
It seems to me that the rulebook on the field is just asking for trouble. If you look up one thing, then the coaches will likely ask after every call that you look it up. The rulebook is a little like having a bull's eye on you in my opinion.

Avoid one replay, have a thousand arguements with coaches. I guess it is a tough call.

Finally, it sounds like the officials screwed up in Georgia, and re-reading the rulebook likely would not have helped. If you misread the situation, correctly reading the rulebook would not help much.
Regarding the Georgia debacle. I corresponded with one of the reporters covering the story. It was a live ball personal foul but enforced as a dead ball personal. Was the difference between 3/18 or 1/10 deep in the offender's territory. The coach requested a timeout and argued the misapplication. A simple glance at the book and the story would have never been told.
And every walkoff will be questioned.

Bob
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 04, 2003, 07:23am
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I can't speak to the NFHS book but the NCAA book can be so confusing that we zebras cannot even agree on what is being said. I imagine it would be even worse with a coach who has likely never looked at the book much anyway. Showing them the book is just going to confuse things.

Example: There is a rule that prohibits chop blocking. SO the coach may scream that someone is "chop blocking" and that is illegal as per "Rule 26-2-3-a". Problem is he knows nothing about Rule 2 which defines what a chop block is. So what he is calling a chop is not illegal anyway.
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Old Thu Dec 04, 2003, 08:24am
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I'm with those that say having the rulebook out there isn't a good idea.

If a coach wants to request a conference and can locate the pertinent rule(s) himself and I, myself, am unsure, I may take a peek. But if I am completely sure of the rule, I won't look at a rulebook even if offered. And a vast majority of the time, I'm very confident in my application of a rule.

Furthermore, the rulebook isn't always enough to understand the rules. We sometimes need to see a casebook and/or handbook to completely support our calls. The rules are sometimes complicated and can't be addressed in short discussion with a coach.

I guess my bottom line is that I would only consider looking at a rulebook if the discussion will be short and when I am unsure of the application of a rule. But the coach will need to provide the book.











[Edited by mikesears on Dec 4th, 2003 at 07:38 AM]
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 04, 2003, 09:13am
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I agree with the above. Having a rulebook on the field is a bad idea. Although sometimes it would be nice to prove to a coach what you did was right so he will stop complaining, it would just make more of a mess. It opens up a can of worms, he will keep asking you to see the rule.

If the coach wants to call a timeout and he has the rulebook then I will show him or listen to him, but if hes wrong he loses a timeout
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 04, 2003, 09:34am
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I agree, it is a bad idea to have a rule book on the field. I call in Texas and agree with TXMike. The book is confusing enough for me and I spend 2-3 hours a week year-round studying it. A coach who is looking at it would have no clue about definitions and exceptions to the rules.

It is our responsibility to know the rules and spend the necessary time studying. My rule book is a big part of my offseason routine. The more time I spend reading it, the better off I am going to be on the field.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 04, 2003, 10:18am
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I have never taken one on the field. I have never seen anyone else with one on the field other than a coach (his was 3 or 4 years old at that point) I do have one in my bag for reference after a game.

[Edited by i011763 on Dec 4th, 2003 at 11:26 AM]
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 04, 2003, 10:41am
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Exclamation

WARNING:
Just think of how many different interpertations we have ON THIS BOARD on the same topic/discussion. You would need more than the rule book wiht you. You would need the case book to cite the exact case and interpertaion of the ruling, illistrated(sp) rule book for clairfication, and the manual for whose coverage it is (and might be). The 2 minute drill done by teh NFL would be NOTHING compared to the s#!T we would have on our field. 15 minutes explaining and showing a coach why and all. It is a bad idea.

As a coach, I have asked officials in basketball to show me why. They have then sent me a ruling/case ruling to explain why. I have thanked them for the insight. Or if the coach REALLY TRULY cared, he could look it up HIMSELF, in his own book on the sideline. Then ask about it at 1/2 or end of the game. Each school is provided with 1 copy.

As for me, bad idea. Nothing good could come from having one on the field.
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