Gerry Davis Mechanics

[Justme]

Originally Posted by JFA67

I have been out of baseball for many years and didn't hear about the GD system until recently. Does anyone have a link to reference materail on it? Thanks.

Here's one:

www.childress.officiating.com

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Justme

Do you really don't think that not being 'locked in' prior to the pitch is a good thing? An umpire should be locked in and not moving at the time of the pitch.

I have never heard anyone say that it's okay to move your head when tracking the ball. Keep your head still and track the ball with your eyes is what I have always been told. If this is a softball thing I'll have to admit that I have very little experience but I do not see why it would be different than baseball.

When I say "locked in", I am referring to setting to a standard, "one-size fits all" stance.

What is wrong with moving your head to "track the ball"? That is some old-school thinking that I ignored in 1966 just as I do today. We're not talking about bobbing around behind the plate, but simply following the ball into the catcher's glove. Makes it much easier to determine if the ball was cleanly caught or not. Remember, in softball, the umpire is usually closer to the plate.

Those of us who work the GD stance (properly) have no problem with the strike zone, regardless of the size of the batter or where F2 sets up. I have no problem with any portion of the zone, high/low or in/out. I have brought my GD stance with me as a fill-in HS softball umpire this season and while some comments have been made as to where I'm setting up no complaints have come from coaches or evaluators as to my strike zone and my consistency.

Of course in HS/college/adult baseball I see more and more umpires using the GD stance. But that’s a story for another forum

And that's fine, but IMO, the games are not the same, the equipment isn't the same and the player's mechanics are not the same, so why would you expect the umpire's mechanics to be the same?

[Justme]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

When I say "locked in", I am referring to setting to a standard, "one-size fits all" stance.

Back when I was new to umpiring I would change my stance to fit each batter...results? Inconsistent strike zone. Now my stance changes only if the batter blocks part of my view by being too close to the plate or if F2 sets up blocking my inside view.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What is wrong with moving your head to "track the ball"? That is some old-school thinking that I ignored in 1966 just as I do today. We're not talking about bobbing around behind the plate, but simply following the ball into the catcher's glove. Makes it much easier to determine if the ball was cleanly caught or not. Remember, in softball, the umpire is usually closer to the plate.

The mechanic of not moving your head isn't just a 1966 mechanic, it is also a 2006 mechanic. I never have to move my head to see the pitch all the way to F2's mitt. I'm not saying that I never get sloppy and let it happen but it is very rare.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And that's fine, but IMO, the games are not the same, the equipment isn't the same and the player's mechanics are not the same, so why would you expect the umpire's mechanics to be the same?

I agree with you, the games are not exactly the same but they are very close. I have not found enought differences between the two games to alter my stance.

Bottom line is, it really doesn't matter what your stance is, what matters is your strike zone & consistency. If we all did things the same way we wouldn't be having all of this fun debating things here

[mick]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

I read an article linked from the Baseball forum and was wondering what the thought is about these mechanics and their relation to fastpitch?

GD can work for Softball. Great view !
Try it for a few games. 'Tain't illegal.
If you don't like the view, throw the stance away.

If you like using the catcher as "protection", you may not like GD, because you are more exposed.
To lower your initial set, for a short batter, spread your feet. It lowers your butt.
Being more upright allows more freedom of movement which gives a better break on a play and on getting away.
Knees, thighs and back take less abuse because of the emphasis on using the arms on thighs to reduce fatigue.

Caution:

• Thumbs in; hands relaxed.
• Do not take a pitch with your forearms in tension.

mick

[RPatrino]

Good Points Mick!!!

What is wrong with moving your head to "track the ball"? Tell me what happens if you try to take a picture while the camera is moving. Unless all the blurriness and lack of focus is a good thing!!!

Bob P.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Tell me what happens if you try to take a picture while the camera is moving. Unless all the blurriness and lack of focus is a good thing!!!

Bob P.

You get a nice, clear, sharp picture if the object you are phtographing is also moving and the camera is tracking the object.






But, if the object is moving and the camera is still? Blurr! (note orange car)

[Justme]

Originally Posted by Dakota

You get a nice, clear, sharp picture if the object you are phtographing is also moving and the camera is tracking the object.






But, if the object is moving and the camera is still? Blurr! (note orange car)

What your photos fail to show is an object (the batter) standing still and the camera having to take a clear pitcture of both at the same time as the ball passes through the strike zone.

If you set your camera up to watch an object coming straight at you and suddenly at the last second you move your camera what happens to the still object (batter)?

Where were you taught to move your head in order to follow the ball?

[Dakota]

Actually, what I was trying to show was the comparison between a camera and a human eye / brain combo is bogus.

Every other human endeavor that involves tracking a moving object with the eye does not get so silly as to suggest that the best way is to move your eyeballs only and keep your head rigid. If there ever was an advantage to this teaching, the advantage was small compared to the cost - the inability to actually see the ball clearly all the way to the glove from as close to the plate as a SB umpire typically is.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Actually, what I was trying to show was the comparison between a camera and a human eye / brain combo is bogus.

Every other human endeavor that involves tracking a moving object with the eye does not get so silly as to suggest that the best way is to move your eyeballs only and keep your head rigid. If there ever was an advantage to this teaching, the advantage was small compared to the cost - the inability to actually see the ball clearly all the way to the glove from as close to the plate as a SB umpire typically is.

So are you saying that it is better to move your head when tracking a softball because the softball umpire is closer to the plate than a baseball umpire? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Baseball (and the one softball clinic I attended) teaches you to track the ball with your eyes and not to move your head, which I do. This is my first season to do high school softball but I have found that using my eyes to track the softball is no different than tracking a baseball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Justme

Baseball (and the one softball clinic I attended) teaches you to track the ball with your eyes and not to move your head, which I do. This is my first season to do high school softball but I have found that using my eyes to track the softball is no different than tracking a baseball.

And what do you do when the ball is low in the dirt or high over the catcher?

The "moving camera" analogy is bogus as it relates to a pitched ball. If you are in a proper stance, there is no need to move the head to track until the ball has already entered/missed the strike zone. That is assuming you have a good view of the strike zone and not using the location of the catcher's glove to make the call

[CecilOne]

A) Of the few things I remember from scouting and military training is that when searching for a moving object, keep your eyes/head still and when searching for a stationary object, move your eyes/head. I'm sure some will say this does not apply, but it does in concept and physics.
B) Another thing learned above is to set your position and hold it.
C) My best results come from a consistent position in the slot, dropping to the top of that batter's strike zone so I'm stationary before the pitch arrives, focusing only on that batter's strike zone and calling the pitch after it arrives without regard to what the catcher does or doesn't do.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And what do you do when the ball is low in the dirt or high over the catcher?

The "moving camera" analogy is bogus as it relates to a pitched ball. If you are in a proper stance, there is no need to move the head to track until the ball has already entered/missed the strike zone. That is assuming you have a good view of the strike zone and not using the location of the catcher's glove to make the call

What do I do when the ball is low in the dirt or high over the catcher? I call the pitch a ball (unless the batter swings), what do you do? I can see the ball go low in the dirt & high above F2 without moving my head, can't you?

When the pitch is good I track it, with my eyes, all the way into F2's mitt, how do you do it? Do you stop tracking the ball as soon as it crosses the plate & make your call? I personally like to wait until a couple of seconds after I see the ball reach F2's mitt before I make my call.

Do you track the ball with your eyes then as it crosses the plate you start moving your head to track the ball?

Please explain your plate mechanics to me, I am always interested in learning different ways of working the plate. IMHO (and maybe the opinion of a few others) there is no need to move your head to track the the ball!

[BretMan]

This whole head movement thing "came to a head" for me recently, at my (baseball) associations annual field clinic last month. I mentioned this in the previous "Gerry Davis" thread here a few weeks ago.

Part of the clinic had us being videotaped in a batting cage, then our tapes were critiqued by senior members. Upon viewing my tape, on some pitches, most notably on those pitches well out of the strike zone, you could see a slight head movement right at the end.

To be clear, I am not moving my head to follow the entire pitch, from pitchers hand to catcher's mitt. I am well-set and still as the ball reaches the plate. But as a pitch tails away from the zone, it tends to go toward the outer edges of our peripheral vision.

In the other thread, I believe that it was Steve who described this as "pointing your nose at the ball". He also offered the analogy of Pete Rose making a similar head adjustment as a ball came across the plate. That seemed a good description of the ever-so-slight adjustment I was making- pointing my nose at the ball to keep it in my field of vision.

Of course, the instructor jumped all over this. I got the same "camera analogy" and this was treated as some kind of fatal flaw.

Since the clinic, I have watched twenty-or-so pro baseball games on television. Nowadays, when I watch a game I probably watch the umpires as much as I do the players! With this criticism still on my mind, I noted that almost every umpire I've observed on television makes this same small adjustment to some degree when pitches are out of the strike zone. For balls right over the plate, there is zero head movement. But if the ball is off the plate, you will almost always see some small head movement.

Mike makes a point about balls that are in the dirt or over the catcher's head. I see this tiny head movement as being most noticable on low, outside pitches. We are already set up in the slot, so inside pitches are generally right at us.

Think about the geometry involved. Imagine a straight line from the pitcher's hand at the release point that extends to the umpires nose. If a ball is 12" off this line near the pitcher, it is still well within our filed of vision. Indeed, we can likely see this ball at most any point along that line without moving our head.

Now, imagine the same line and a ball 12" off of it at your nose. This ball would be almost totally out of your peripheral vision. You would have to turn to see it.

The head turning I have observed is a small adjustment and it takes place in the last few feet of the pitch, after it has crossed the plate and in the short distance to the catcher's mitt. It is absent in pitches over the plate, or close to it, and most noticable on pitches well out of the strike zone.

For those that say they never move their head, if you are videotaped on a variety of pitches, I am willing to bet that there will be some pitches off the plate where you have some head movement. This seems to be an unconcious action as a ball goes to the outer edges of our field of vision.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Justme

What do I do when the ball is low in the dirt or high over the catcher? I call the pitch a ball (unless the batter swings), what do you do? I can see the ball go low in the dirt & high above F2 without moving my head, can't you?

Is there a possible U3K? If so, you better know if the catcher caught the ball. Is there the possibility the catcher is about ready to move to chase a missed ball? If the catcher misses it, could it be at your feet and you need to evacuate the area without kicking the ball? These are all possibilities and I'd rather have an inkling that I need to move before "feeling" the catcher move.

If you set up looking toward the pitcher, how are you going to be aware of any of this unless you move your head? If you can see it without moving your head, you are so far behind the catcher. In softball, if that's where you are, you are too far back.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Is there a possible U3K? If so, you better know if the catcher caught the ball. Is there the possibility the catcher is about ready to move to chase a missed ball? If the catcher misses it, could it be at your feet and you need to evacuate the area without kicking the ball? These are all possibilities and I'd rather have an inkling that I need to move before "feeling" the catcher move.

If you set up looking toward the pitcher, how are you going to be aware of any of this unless you move your head? If you can see it without moving your head, you are so far behind the catcher. In softball, if that's where you are, you are too far back.

You didn't answer all of my questions but that's okay.

Maybe I'm 'special' because I have no problem telling when the ball gets past the catcher and I have no problem moving out of her way. I just step to the side and open up, this allows F2 room to chase the ball. Of course by this time not only am I moving my head but every other part of me as well

But I still haven't heard a good reason to move your head rather than follow the ball to the F2 with your eyes.