Gerry Davis Mechanics

[tcblue13]

I read an article linked from the Baseball forum and was wondering what the thought is about these mechanics and their relation to fastpitch?

[BretMan]

tcblue,

I posed this same question here about a month ago, on a thread discussing plate mechanics. No one responded (except for one person that, judging from his response, had no idea what the GD system was).

I have experimented with this stance and there are pros and cons- just like with any other stance. I've used it in some scrimmage games and practices, but when it comes to "real" games I tend to go back to what I am familiar with and has worked for me in the past. One less thing to worry about, I guess.

Aside from the post I mentioned above, I have never seen any discussion of this stance on any of the numerous softball boards I frequent, nor have I ever seen this stance used in any fastpitch softball games.

So, I'm still up in the air on this one and might try it some more this spring. Maybe I'm just an old dog and it's a new trick!

[Justme]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

I read an article linked from the Baseball forum and was wondering what the thought is about these mechanics and their relation to fastpitch?

I am in my second season using the GD stance for baseball (after many, many years of using the slot). I’m also in my first year doing HS softball and I use the GD stance. I personally find that it gives me a better view of the plate (especially the outside corners) and the ball all the way to F2’s mitt. It also is less stressful on my worn out knees.

Here’s a portion of some information that I found on Officiating.com explaining the GD Stance. I do not remember who wrote it so I’ll apologize to the author in advance.

Assume the Set position:

Spread your legs much wider than your shoulders
Lean over and put both hands on your knees
Don’t push down on your shin guards

Get comfortable:

Rest you weight on your knees
Lock and tuck your elbows
Just before the time of the pitch drop your seat about 4”

See the plate:

Put you nose on the inside corner and keep it there
Move if the batter or catcher blocks your view of the pitcher’s release point
Work an arms length (about 3’) behind the catcher

[AtlUmpSteve]

The GD stance has several weaknesses in softball, in my opinion. The first is that it leaves the umpire's head very high looking down through the zone, forcing a judgment on the top of the zone, and making the judgment more difficult at the knees; compared to setting your eyes at the top of the zone, and making anything above your eyes a ball, and anything below your eyes a possible strike. That can be overlooked with consistency, but it still requires more judgment than necessary.

The second issue is much more problematic. In the softball game, the batter is most often in the front of the batters box, and the catcher then moves up to a point almost directly behind the plate. If you, as an umpire, set up 3' behind the catcher, the last time you will see the ball is 3' in front of the plate, because the catcher's body will take that space in front of her away from you. This is not an issue in baseball, when batters universally stand in the back of a box that is 4' behind the plate; it is a huge and insurmountable problem when the batter is 4' in front of the plate.

If you claim to see the ball across the plate into the catchers glove with that stance with the catcher directly behind home plate, you are only fooling yourself.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The GD stance has several weaknesses in softball, in my opinion. The first is that it leaves the umpire's head very high looking down through the zone, forcing a judgment on the top of the zone, and making the judgment more difficult at the knees; compared to setting your eyes at the top of the zone, and making anything above your eyes a ball, and anything below your eyes a possible strike. That can be overlooked with consistency, but it still requires more judgment than necessary.

The second issue is much more problematic. In the softball game, the batter is most often in the front of the batters box, and the catcher then moves up to a point almost directly behind the plate. If you, as an umpire, set up 3' behind the catcher, the last time you will see the ball is 3' in front of the plate, because the catcher's body will take that space in front of her away from you. This is not an issue in baseball, when batters universally stand in the back of a box that is 4' behind the plate; it is a huge and insurmountable problem when the batter is 4' in front of the plate.

If you claim to see the ball across the plate into the catchers glove with that stance with the catcher directly behind home plate, you are only fooling yourself.

I have not experienced the problems with the upper & lower zone you write about. I watch the ball and easily see where it goes in the GD stance. In fact as I said before, I get a better (longer) view of the ball. I have found the GD stance to be the best stance I have used in 30 years of umpiring.

I could go into a long, but probably futile, discussion with you on the how your experiences with the GD stance are probably due to you not knowing how to work the stance properly.

Just MHO

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Justme

I have not experienced the problems with the upper & lower zone you write about. I watch the ball and easily see where it goes in the GD stance. In fact as I said before, I get a better (longer) view of the ball. I have found the GD stance to be the best stance I have used in 30 years of umpiring.

I could go into a long, but probably futile, discussion with you on the how your experiences with the GD stance are probably due to you not knowing how to work the stance properly.

Just MHO

My experiences are as an evaluator; I have never personally tried the GD stance. But, I have evaluated and worked with numerous top baseball umpires who have attempted to use the same stance in softball, and that has exposed the weaknesses. For that reason, I have to reject your supposition, as my working the stance isn't a factor.

The upper and lower zone issues can be, as I said, overcome. But, as a technique for teaching the masses, the other method (eyes at the top of the zone) creates more consistency with less judgment involved.

A drop ball pitcher is especially effective with a GD stance plate umpire; all batters move up to hit the drop while it is up, but the ball consistently will drop before the plate with the PU never seeing it drop off the knees.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

My experiences are as an evaluator; I have never personally tried the GD stance. But, I have evaluated and worked with numerous top baseball umpires who have attempted to use the same stance in softball, and that has exposed the weaknesses. For that reason, I have to reject your supposition, as my working the stance isn't a factor.

The upper and lower zone issues can be, as I said, overcome. But, as a technique for teaching the masses, the other method (eyes at the top of the zone) creates more consistency with less judgment involved.

A drop ball pitcher is especially effective with a GD stance plate umpire; all batters move up to hit the drop while it is up, but the ball consistently will drop before the plate with the PU never seeing it drop off the knees.

I had a feeling that we would never agree :-)

[mick]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

I read an article linked from the Baseball forum and was wondering what the thought is about these mechanics and their relation to fastpitch?

GD can work for Softball. Great view !
Try it for a few games. 'Tain't illegal.
If you don't like the view, throw the stance away.

If you like using the catcher as "protection", you may not like GD, because you are more exposed.
To lower your initial set, for a short batter, spread your feet. It lowers your butt.
Being more upright allows more freedom of movement which gives a better break on a play and on getting away.
Knees, thighs and back take less abuse because of the emphasis on using the arms on thighs to reduce fatigue.

Caution:

• Thumbs in; hands relaxed.
• Do not take a pitch with your forearms in tension.

mick

[RPatrino]

Good Points Mick!!!

What is wrong with moving your head to "track the ball"? Tell me what happens if you try to take a picture while the camera is moving. Unless all the blurriness and lack of focus is a good thing!!!

Bob P.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Tell me what happens if you try to take a picture while the camera is moving. Unless all the blurriness and lack of focus is a good thing!!!

Bob P.

You get a nice, clear, sharp picture if the object you are phtographing is also moving and the camera is tracking the object.






But, if the object is moving and the camera is still? Blurr! (note orange car)

[Justme]

Originally Posted by Dakota

You get a nice, clear, sharp picture if the object you are phtographing is also moving and the camera is tracking the object.






But, if the object is moving and the camera is still? Blurr! (note orange car)

What your photos fail to show is an object (the batter) standing still and the camera having to take a clear pitcture of both at the same time as the ball passes through the strike zone.

If you set your camera up to watch an object coming straight at you and suddenly at the last second you move your camera what happens to the still object (batter)?

Where were you taught to move your head in order to follow the ball?

[Dakota]

Actually, what I was trying to show was the comparison between a camera and a human eye / brain combo is bogus.

Every other human endeavor that involves tracking a moving object with the eye does not get so silly as to suggest that the best way is to move your eyeballs only and keep your head rigid. If there ever was an advantage to this teaching, the advantage was small compared to the cost - the inability to actually see the ball clearly all the way to the glove from as close to the plate as a SB umpire typically is.