What's The Call?

[tcannizzo]

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, R3 on 1B - less than 2 outs.

R3 takes off on the pitch and goes to 2B while F2 returns ball to F1.

We now have R2 on 2B with R1 also on 2B with the ball in the circle.

LBR not in effect because no runners are off a base. True or False?

The only way to resolve this is for the defense to make a play at 2B and tag R1. True or False?

[debeau]

ISF
False
R1 has no right to that base and therefore if the ball is pitched the R1 would be called out for not being on base

[mach3]

ISF Rules

If they both stay in contact with the base no LBR violation can be called.

If they don't play on the runners but F1 steps on the rubber, I call time and return R2 to 1B since we can not have 2 Runners on one base.
I don't see a reason here for calling an out if no runner is played out, but I have to get back to a situation were the game can continue.

Raoul

[debeau]

Two runners may not occupy the same base simultaneously
The runner who first legally occupied the base shall be entitled to it unless forced to advance .
The other runner may be put out by being touched by the ball .
Thus if not entitled to it is classed as off the base and will be out if the ball is pitched .
I would say though that the defense should play them out and if not after a short time yes kill the ball and return R1 to 1st .

[Bandit]

Originally posted by tcannizzo
R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, R3 on 1B - less than 2 outs.

R3 takes off on the pitch and goes to 2B while F2 returns ball to F1.

We now have R2 on 2B with R1 also on 2B with the ball in the circle.

LBR not in effect because no runners are off a base. True or False?

The only way to resolve this is for the defense to make a play at 2B and tag R1. True or False?

Your original statement states that R3 starts on 1B, your initial action has R3 going to 2B, but you final situation has R2 on second and also R1 which started at 3B. What's up with that ?

Taking the chance that this is a typo and you actually have R2 and R3 on second after the pitch has been delivered and returned to the pitcher I want to ask the question as to why I can't invoke the LBR ? R3 has no right to the base and therefore cannot stay. LBR states that the runner must make an immediate decision as to advance or return after the ball has been returned to the pitcher. Since advancement is not possible she would have to return to first. No immediate decision I have an OUT ! I am not in the habit of giving away OUT's ! Or protecting the offense for stupidity. PS after this I also no longer have the IFR possible.

[tcannizzo]

You are right there is a typo. It is R2 and R3 that are on 2B simultaneously.

But you can't invoke LBR, because it is only valid if a runner is not in contact with a base.

To another poster, don't assume that the offense was stupid. By forcing a play out at 2B, this gives R1 an opportunity to score. Especially if R2 and R3 split on the play.

The correct ruling is that F1 MUST make a play to resolve the incorrect runner on 2B (R3), but if no play is made after a certain amount of time, you kill the play and return R3 to 1B.

[whiskers_ump]

Suppose the pitcher decides to not make an immediate
play. How long you going to wait before you resolve
the problem?

[WestMichBlue]

"How long you going to wait before you resolve
the problem?"

Same as you would anytime a runner is lolly gagging back to base. When the pitcher steps up to pitch, stop her and order runner back.

Of course you (as PU) better be watching R1 as the LBR is in effect for her. She better be moving back to, or be on 3B.

If R1 is back on 3B, and F1 is just watching both bases, and it is obvious that any play has come to an end, then kill the ball and send R1 back. The defense has lost their opportunity to get an out, and the offense has lost their opportunity to score.

Start Over!

WMB

[Steve M]

Seems to me that ASA has this situation as a case book play. I'll look & verify that later today.

[tcannizzo]

This is an offensive play. Killing it too quickly would penalize the offense. R3 is "in play" while she is standing on the base. Protected against the LBR, but definitley still in play.

If this play is executed by the offense, all hell will be breaking looose on the field. The pitcher just might be getting several verbal instructions from the bench as well as players. I would probably wait until it all settled down, and we knew for sure there would be no play. Might seem like an eternity, but chances are pitcher will get the ball over to 2B.

The offense might have tipped off the UIC that they had this play in their playbook, and not to be surprised if it happened and certainly make sure that the blues didn't call an out.

[Bandit]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tcannizzo
[B]

But you can't invoke LBR, because it is only valid if a runner is not in contact with a base.

I still claim that I certainly can envoke the LBR. I'll have to go get my rule book for some documentation but I'm backing this up 2 ways.....The runner from first has no legal right to second base so therefore she must return to first if she fails to do this within a VERY SHORT period of time and the pitcher has not freaked out and done something to indicate an attempt to make a play I'm calling time and getting an OUT. I'm also thinking of it this way. If you were to get a throw to second base and a defensive player were to tag the two runners (order would not matter) I'm going to have an out on the runner that should be at first. Again supporting the thought that the runner that has come from first has no legal claim to second base.

Just curious. What are you going to say to the defensive coach after you have called time and placed the runner back on first ? Because his/her first question is going to be why are helping the offensive team ?

[TwoBits]

Originally posted by Steve M
Seems to me that ASA has this situation as a case book play. I'll look & verify that later today.

I'm interested in what FED has to say about this.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
"How long you going to wait before you resolve
the problem?"

Same as you would anytime a runner is lolly gagging back to base. When the pitcher steps up to pitch, stop her and order runner back.

Of course you (as PU) better be watching R1 as the LBR is in effect for her. She better be moving back to, or be on 3B.

If R1 is back on 3B, and F1 is just watching both bases, and it is obvious that any play has come to an end, then kill the ball and send R1 back. The defense has lost their opportunity to get an out, and the offense has lost their opportunity to score.

Start Over!
WMB

I with you, a DO-OVER



[Edited by whiskers_ump on Mar 23rd, 2005 at 12:16 PM]

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Bandit
I still claim that I certainly can envoke the LBR....

Speaking ASA.

You are wrong unless the runner herself leaves the base to return to 1st without a play having been made by the pitcher.

Originally posted by Bandit
Just curious. What are you going to say to the defensive coach after you have called time and placed the runner back on first ? Because his/her first question is going to be why are helping the offensive team ?

Speaking ASA.

Steve M already gave you the answer. Case Play 8.8-66.

[whiskers_ump]

Damn Tom,

I had found it and was typing when a blip hit my screen.
Checked and it was you giving out the good information.

Well, guess I will go plow the garden...Sun is finally
shinning here. Three days straight. WOW