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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 02, 2018, 10:39am
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This is not something that is going to be addressed in the rule books nor should it be any concern of an umpire.

If the school district or league has any restrictions on who can coach and what they must do to qualify, this is on that entity to police those requirements.

If the umpire staff is expected to police that, the umpires need to have a serious talk with their association to go to those leagues and set this straight.

For comparison purposes.....should the umpires be asking every player prior to the game if they have the sufficient grades to be able to play in that game? Not our issue to deal with.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 02, 2018, 12:39pm
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Multiple Sports is worrying about far to many things that should have NO bearing on the game. Hope his strike zone is perfect.

PS/FYI, don't recommend anyone tell my daughter as a college softball player she is a second class athlete as a female. Although I might pay someone to do it for the entertainment value of it. LOL
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 02:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
Gentlemen,

My interpreter and I have are having a friendly debate over this one. I have over the years have disallowed parents catching their daughter who is pitching upon arrival on the field. Whether they are catching them prior to the start of the game, between innings on the side or even taking a few pitches behind the plate to help "speed the game up" as the catcher gets her gear on. I feel as those it is a liability if the parent throws the ball back and were to hit another girl in the face. ( I know that is extreme but trying to show the liability side ).

Lacrosse referees don't let fathers warm up the goalies and this doesn't happen in baseball. Just trying to get the brotherhood thoughts. My rules interpreter doesn't think there is a rule set to validate my thought process.
Your rules interpreter is right

Pitching warm-ups before game time is not our concern, with the exception of when a player doesn't wear the appropriate helmet/mask while she's catching within the confines of the field. There is no basis in the rules to prohibit Mom or Dad from catching Susie's warm-up pitches before the game.

What happens in the bullpen or other designated warm-up areas outside of the fences, again, that's not covered by the rules with the previous exception as I mentioned. So letting Mom or Dad warm up Susie then is perfectly acceptable from an umpiring standpoint.

Even on the field itself, there isn't a specific rule that says a parent cannot come out of the stands to warm up a pitcher. If the coach is okay with it, what rule are we to use to say, "Nope, can't happen"? Unfortunately, the NFHS rules book or case book does not state that parents cannot come onto the field between innings.

Now, if the coach claims the parent is a team coach, then the parent needs to abide by the rules regarding where coaches may sit (must be in the dugout or designated warm-up area at all times unless actively participating in the game as a base coach), what they may wear, etc. So if Dad comes onto the field with blue jeans, then we can say something.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 02:54pm
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I know this is not directly relevant, but professional baseball rules list the people who are authorized to be on the field (Players and Coaches in uniform, managers, news photographers authorized by the home team, umpires, officers of the law in uniform (police) and watchmen or other employees of the home club (4.07 (a)).

More directly, NFHS Rule 3-6-6 only permits the "batter, runner(s), on-deck batter, coaches in the coach's box, bat/ball shaggers or one of the nine players on defense... to be outside the designated dugout/bench or designated warm-up areas." This implies that no one else, except media (the rules provide for a designated media area to be set up on the field, with the stipulation that said area is to be considered dead ball territory) , umpires, and possibly active police or security, are to be allowed on the field.

If no one except the aforementioned individuals is to be allowed on the field, then there is no reason for parents to warm up their children during a game, unless a parent is also present at the field in one of the above roles.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 03:36pm
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
More directly, NFHS Rule 3-6-6 only permits the "batter, runner(s), on-deck batter, coaches in the coach's box, bat/ball shaggers or one of the nine players on defense... to be outside the designated dugout/bench or designated warm-up areas." This implies that no one else, except media (the rules provide for a designated media area to be set up on the field, with the stipulation that said area is to be considered dead ball territory) , umpires, and possibly active police or security, are to be allowed on the field.
That's a real stretch.

3-6-6 basically says that bench personnel must stay on the bench if they are not actively participating in the game. The exception is that they can also go to a designated warm-up area. The only implication in the rule is that team personnel are not allowed in the bleachers, concession stand, press box, along the fence next to the opposing dugout, etc. All of the case plays for 3-6-6 refer to bench personnel.

3-6-6 makes no mention whatsoever of spectators in between innings. Would you not allow a volunteer from the concession stand to bring your partner and you a Gatorade? What about someone from the stands who comes in to do some groundskeeping? Or a Mom who needs to help her daughter with a hair ribbon? So why would you feel compelled to prevent an adult who isn't a coach from helping a pitcher warm up?

I've done a number of high school games where there was only one adult in the dugout, and he/she has needed the help of a parent to take care of the dugout while he/she goes out to base coach. I don't see this as being any different.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 10:40pm
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
That's a real stretch.

3-6-6 basically says that bench personnel must stay on the bench if they are not actively participating in the game. The exception is that they can also go to a designated warm-up area. The only implication in the rule is that team personnel are not allowed in the bleachers, concession stand, press box, along the fence next to the opposing dugout, etc. All of the case plays for 3-6-6 refer to bench personnel.

3-6-6 makes no mention whatsoever of spectators in between innings. Would you not allow a volunteer from the concession stand to bring your partner and you a Gatorade? What about someone from the stands who comes in to do some groundskeeping? Or a Mom who needs to help her daughter with a hair ribbon? So why would you feel compelled to prevent an adult who isn't a coach from helping a pitcher warm up?

I've done a number of high school games where there was only one adult in the dugout, and he/she has needed the help of a parent to take care of the dugout while he/she goes out to base coach. I don't see this as being any different.
So now you are going to let a parent in the dugout to be a "bench" coach. At the end of the inning, I guess that parent can go back to her lawn chair ??
This is why some feel softball is a second class sport or we treat if no different than parks and rec. They aren't a coach so when they holler and scream at you in the dug out and throw a bat onto the field to protest a call or you going to eject a "spectator". By your standards she isn't a coach.
Let's have coaches and spectators and keep them different. I don't toss spectators ( let admin deal with them ). I will eject a coach if neccessry.
Parents are not coaches....

I doubt there is another hs school sport where we as officials let parents (spectators ) get involved as much as they do....
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Last edited by Multiple Sports; Thu May 03, 2018 at 10:42pm.
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Old Thu May 03, 2018, 10:41pm
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Multiple Sports is worrying about far to many things that should have NO bearing on the game. Hope his strike zone is perfect.

PS/FYI, don't recommend anyone tell my daughter as a college softball player she is a second class athlete as a female. Although I might pay someone to do it for the entertainment value of it. LOL
No my zone is far from perfect.. Missed 4 pitches today ( that I know if )...definitely too small.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 11:52pm
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Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
So now you are going to let a parent in the dugout to be a "bench" coach. At the end of the inning, I guess that parent can go back to her lawn chair ??
This is why some feel softball is a second class sport or we treat if no different than parks and rec. They aren't a coach so when they holler and scream at you in the dug out and throw a bat onto the field to protest a call or you going to eject a "spectator". By your standards she isn't a coach.
Let's have coaches and spectators and keep them different. I don't toss spectators ( let admin deal with them ). I will eject a coach if neccessry.
Parents are not coaches....

I doubt there is another hs school sport where we as officials let parents (spectators ) get involved as much as they do....
You don't get to decide who the school considers an authorizes person or a coach.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 07, 2018, 05:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
So now you are going to let a parent in the dugout to be a "bench" coach. At the end of the inning, I guess that parent can go back to her lawn chair ??
This is why some feel softball is a second class sport or we treat if no different than parks and rec. They aren't a coach so when they holler and scream at you in the dug out and throw a bat onto the field to protest a call or you going to eject a "spectator". By your standards she isn't a coach.
Let's have coaches and spectators and keep them different. I don't toss spectators ( let admin deal with them ). I will eject a coach if neccessry.
Parents are not coaches....

I doubt there is another hs school sport where we as officials let parents (spectators ) get involved as much as they do....
No, I wouldn’t allow the “bench” coach to go back and forth from the dugout to the bleachers. Once they’ve established themselves as a “coach”, they have to stay in the dugout. It’s almost always a small school that is really hurting for players, and the coach is pretty much babysitting more than coaching. I can probably count on one hand where I’ve seen it happen.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 07, 2018, 09:18pm
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
No, I wouldn’t allow the “bench” coach to go back and forth from the dugout to the bleachers. Once they’ve established themselves as a “coach”, they have to stay in the dugout. It’s almost always a small school that is really hurting for players, and the coach is pretty much babysitting more than coaching. I can probably count on one hand where I’ve seen it happen.
IMO, this would apply to any alphabet. Had a NQ one year where I noticed (as the UIC) the HC visiting a "spectator" sitting behind the backstop just a bit off-center every half inning. Before the next game this guy spent time with the team warming up on the field. I mentioned it to the TD (JO Commissioner) who sat down behind him for the next game. Not only was he charting pitches, he was offering direction that you would normally hear from a coach.

So, the TD told him he could either be a spectator or a coach and if he were going to coach, he needed to be in the dugout. He didn't like it, but he didn't argue too much. Apparently, the TD wasn't wrong
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