BR: Out or Safe?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Relevant video: Cron's slick move to reach base | MLB.com

Bear with me. Pretend it's softball. Is the BR out or safe?

I have the BR safe, but I need to get some rule cites handy.

My initial take. He passed first toward second returned to correct his baserunning mistake and then left the bag. At that point he was tagged, he should have been out. Any ruleset either sport.

Then I dove into the rulebook. A couple of thoughts from that pass. Oversliding first is not legal in ASA. I would have missed that on the field if it had ever happened. Second, overrunning is not defined in the book so I guess you could decide that was this, but on the I know it when I see it theory this isn't overrunning.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by youngump

My initial take. He passed first toward second returned to correct his baserunning mistake and then left the bag. At that point he was tagged, he should have been out. Any ruleset either sport.

Then I dove into the rulebook. A couple of thoughts from that pass. Oversliding first is not legal in ASA. I would have missed that on the field if it had ever happened. Second, overrunning is not defined in the book so I guess you could decide that was this, but on the I know it when I see it theory this isn't overrunning.

I see no attempt for 2nd. A runner can take any path to the base they want.
As long as not over 3 feet from original avoiding a tag. Might have been 3, but not in my judgment.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I see no attempt for 2nd. A runner can take any path to the base they want.
As long as not over 3 feet from original avoiding a tag. Might have been 3, but not in my judgment.

Not in mine either. I didn't say he made an attempt for second I said he passed 1st toward second. If there was a runner standing on first you'd have called him out for passing that runner, no?
But a runner can't take any path they want to 1B and still be considered over running the bag. Consider for example, U3K, runner gets to the 1B dugout opening but not in when the coach tells her to run. The opening is in a line with 1st and 2nd. The runner can't overrun at all from that angle. I'm not inclined to let a runner overrun it along that same line going the other way either.

[Dakota]

My breakdown of this:

The BR overran the base but did not touch it; he returned and touched before he was tagged, (the tag would be an appeal anyway, so even if the tag was before the touch, there would have to be someting indicating an appeal).

But, then the BR lost contact with the base after returning, so on the second tag, out.

I get the point about any ol' direction on the overrun, but this is close enough to be an overrun (the first time) IMO. Besides, technically, the BR loses his protection for an try for 2nd, not for a somewhat curved overrun path.

But, in the end the BR is out on the second tag.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I get the point about any ol' direction on the overrun, but this is close enough to be an overrun (the first time) IMO..

I think I agree with this. But I also don't think it matters. Is there any situation where overrunning and missing is different from not overrunning and missing?

[Little Jimmy]

After watching the video quite a few times, it seems like this would be treated like any overrun where the runner misses the bag then returns (in this case the touch of the hand) and then steps off the bag and is tagged. What if the runner would have simply missed the bag with no close play, followed by a live ball appeal, a slide back into 1st that beats the tag or touch, then a roll off the bag, then another tag? I've got an out in that scenario and I believe in the video also.