2 Out Decision

[blueump]

I was assigned to worked with a partner last night who, shall I just say, was "interesting". In game 1 he was behind the plate and called strikes on two pitches that bounced. Later, in game 2, he called a player safe after she was doubled off 3rd on an infield fly - the ball beat her back to the bag, but he claimed she needed to be tagged. He was yelling back at the coach and crowd and things got quite tense for a while. I was able to "help him" fix that one, although it took quite a bit of convincing. I also got the crowd and the coaches calmed down. There were other highly questionable calls as well but this post is regarding a comment he made during our pregame.

Apparently at a previous game a situation arose where he had the wrong number of outs "on his clicker"....shocker! After he announced that there were 2 outs (and I don't know the details of the play) another out was made. One of the remaining base runners then entered the dugout, believing the inning was over. When the coach pointed out that in fact there had only been two outs in the inning, as confirmed by both books, he called the base runner out for abandoning her base. He proudly stated that no amount of arguing from the coach would make him change his mind.

Is there a jeopardy rule in NFHS Softball that allows the error of this umpire to be fixed?

[RKBUmp]

Every rule set has a jeopardy rule. NFHS is 10-2-3-m. It was the umpires incorrect call which made the runner enter the duguout, why would it not be correctable?

[AtlUmpSteve]

The jeopardy rule relates to a call delayed or reversed; I don't see how that applies here. The umpires don't "call" the quantity; the outs speak for themselves.

Also, while there may not be an NFHS ruling (haven't looked for it), there is/was an ASA case play that made it clear that asking the umpire for count or outs didn't absolve the teams (especially the offense, that has two coaches on the field) of being accountable and responsible to know the game situation. The teams needed to challenge the information given; when they didn't, their bad (too).

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Every rule set has a jeopardy rule. NFHS is 10-2-3-m. It was the umpires incorrect call which made the runner enter the duguout, why would it not be correctable?

This is a bit tricky. If it was clear that the runner reacted to the actions of the umpire, and the umpire was wrong, we have a jeopardy situation. If the runner simply left the field because the defense thought it was two outs, but there was only 1 prior to the play, then that is on the runner and the offense for not knowing the situation.

I agree with those who say the offense needs to know the situation, and question the number of outs, when it is incorrectly stated by the umpire. Given that I only do JV ball, I am likely to say that the mistake was on my / our part and put the runners back where they belong in most instances I can see with the OP listed.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

This is a bit tricky. If it was clear that the runner reacted to the actions of the umpire, and the umpire was wrong, we have a jeopardy situation. If the runner simply left the field because the defense thought it was two outs, but there was only 1 prior to the play, then that is on the runner and the offense for not knowing the situation.

I agree with those who say the offense needs to know the situation, and question the number of outs, when it is incorrectly stated by the umpire. Given that I only do JV ball, I am likely to say that the mistake was on my / our part and put the runners back where they belong in most instances I can see with the OP listed.

My response to this is simple. If the umpire told the teams that "that was three outs", then we have an issue because his actions caused the offensive players to exit the field. If the umpire was asked previously the number of outs and incorrectly stated them, that's on the team for not questioning it and the out for abandonment stands.

As an umpire, if I make a mistake, I will "fall on my sword" and make sure correct decision is male. With that said, I will not help a team out when they aren't helping themselves.