Deceitful act or great play?

[jmkupka]

No more deceitful than the runner starting to return to 3B, then breaking for home on the throw from F2 to F1...

[AtlUmpSteve]

There used to be (not sure if still exists) a case play ruling that drew the line. It referred to a play like this, but in that play, the defense had left a ball along the fence/dead ball line (whether in or out was immaterial), so that runner and coach saw what looked like an overthrown ball.

The ruling specified that the use of the ball as a prop was over-the-line between legitimate trickery and unsporting deceitfulness. Otherwise, the play was to be ruled as legal.

General trickery is legal; otherwise we would have to address fake throws, changeups, and even fadeaway slides. Fake tags are illegal as unsafe and too likely to create an injury.

The line to be used is way farther to the right than this play.

[Blueplate]

Then if trickery is allowed,what if....

R1 on 3rd R2 on 1st..

Shortstop is playing almost behind pitcher.. Ball is pitched out to batter..R2 is going on the pitch..catcher comes up firing but does not release the ball..SS tags R2..R2 thinking she was tagged stops...R1 believing there was a throw heads to home where she is tagged by the catcher who then throws to 1st who then tags R2.

Deceitful play..NFHS says you cannot fag a tag. So this deceitful play is not allowed. NFHS rules do not mention that other deceitful plays are legal.

It does state,however, that any deceitful play or any play that is not in the spirit of fair play is unsportsmanlike conduct. Don't see how you could rule any other way. If the hidden ball trick is not a deceitful play...then what would you call it???

What about in football the old fumble-rooski..?????

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Blueplate

Then if trickery is allowed,what if....

R1 on 3rd R2 on 1st..

Shortstop is playing almost behind pitcher.. Ball is pitched out to batter..R2 is going on the pitch..catcher comes up firing but does not release the ball..SS tags R2..R2 thinking she was tagged stops...R1 believing there was a throw heads to home where she is tagged by the catcher who then throws to 1st who then tags R2.

Deceitful play..NFHS says you cannot fag a tag. So this deceitful play is not allowed. NFHS rules do not mention that other deceitful plays are legal.

It does state,however, that any deceitful play or any play that is not in the spirit of fair play is unsportsmanlike conduct. Don't see how you could rule any other way. If the hidden ball trick is not a deceitful play...then what would you call it???

What about in football the old fumble-rooski..?????

Ruling on this play:

R1 is out; hate that for you running on a fake throw. R2 has been obstructed on the fake tag and awarded 2nd base (could not have failed to advance since no play was made.

Dear Lord, are you ruling it deceitful if they throw to 2nd on this play, but F4 cuts it off and makes a play on R1?

Fumblerooski, if run properly, IS a legal play in football.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Blueplate

Then if trickery is allowed,what if....

R1 on 3rd R2 on 1st..

Shortstop is playing almost behind pitcher.. Ball is pitched out to batter..R2 is going on the pitch..catcher comes up firing but does not release the ball..SS tags R2..R2 thinking she was tagged stops...R1 believing there was a throw heads to home where she is tagged by the catcher who then throws to 1st who then tags R2.

Deceitful play..NFHS says you cannot fag a tag. So this deceitful play is not allowed. NFHS rules do not mention that other deceitful plays are legal.

It does state,however, that any deceitful play or any play that is not in the spirit of fair play is unsportsmanlike conduct. Don't see how you could rule any other way. If the hidden ball trick is not a deceitful play...then what would you call it???

What about in football the old fumble-rooski..?????

Blue Plate:

1) I do not officiate football (but I use to officiate futbol, ), but I do believe that the fumble-rooski play in NFHS Football is not illegal. I am sure that if you asked on the Football Forum, someone will answer your inquiry.

2) Faking a tag is obstruction and is not not covered under the provisions of unsportsmanlike conduct.

3) The hidden ball play is nothing more than a trick play used to fool an opposing runner. Nothing unsportsmanlike about it.

But let me ask you another question: Do you officiate soccer? I ask because my experience with soccer officials is that only they possibly would consider the OP and the hidden ball play deceitful and unsportsmanlike conduct.

MTD, Sr.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Love this play

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ9cXtvkhrU