Red Card Rule

[arsoccerfan]

Hi all. Question: If you have played in a USYSA sanctioned tournament in one state, lets say Georgia, and you receive a red card in the last game. Do you have to sit out the next game when you return to your home state of Louisiana? or is the red card only valid for the state for which it was received?
I would appreciate an answer to this question ...

[Nevadaref]

That depends upon a couple of factors.
1. What does your home state association require? Some honor red card suspensions from other states, some do not. Contact the LA office.

2. Did the referee from the game bother to fill out a USSF supplemental report form for the red card and submit it? Did the tournament director file it with the state office in charge of the tournament? If not, then there will not be a paper trail to ever get back to the home state.

3. Was the player pass kept by the tournament staff or returned to the coach/team manager following the match? That should give you a good indication. No pass = no play in most places.

4. What does the coach of the team want. Some coaches suspend their player for the next match no matter what the league/tournament/state/referee does. That is a strong stance on sporting behavior.

I hope that helps you.

[ref2coach]

The requirement to "set out" a game for being ejected is not in TLOG. It is found in the FIFA "discipline procedures" document found on the FIFA website.
USSF is an affiliate of FIFA. If your State soccer association which issues you your player pass is a USSF affiliate, then you are bound by the game suspension rules. If you had to show your "card" to play, no matter where you played you acknowledged that you were bound by the affiliation to the State, USSF & FIFA.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

The requirement to "set out" a game for being ejected is not in TLOG. It is found in the FIFA "discipline procedures" document found on the FIFA website.
USSF is an affiliate of FIFA. If your State soccer association which issues you your player pass is a USSF affiliate, then you are bound by the game suspension rules. If you had to show your "card" to play, no matter where you played you acknowledged that you were bound by the affiliation to the State, USSF & FIFA.

While what you say is nice in theory, it is unfortunately not the way it works in practice. The best example that I can provide is what happens when someone receives a red card in their last match of a US CLUB Soccer tournament. US Club Soccer does NOT hold the pass in this situation. They do not care since their event is over. While US Club Soccer is an affiliated USSF organization, they clearly do not abide by what you have written.

[huh?]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

The requirement to "set out" a game for being ejected is not in TLOG. It is found in the FIFA "discipline procedures" document found on the FIFA website.
USSF is an affiliate of FIFA. If your State soccer association which issues you your player pass is a USSF affiliate, then you are bound by the game suspension rules. If you had to show your "card" to play, no matter where you played you acknowledged that you were bound by the affiliation to the State, USSF & FIFA.

hmmm.......Kristine Lilly played in the final match of a recent tournament, after receiving a red card in the previous match - because the tournament rules did not call for a suspension for a red card.

it happens all the time all over the world, that a player will receive a red card, or otherwise earn a suspension in one event, but still be allowed to continue to participate in a different event with his team. Think Champions League and XXX League play, where XXX is the domestic league. Or FA Cup and EPL.

referees should worry about the game on the day, not about administrative issues. officials have enough to try to do well without giving themselves the chance to be wrong in other areas that are not part of their duty. This is said as an official, admin, and coach, btw, before some of you get your undies in a bunch

[huh?]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

4. What does the coach of the team want. Some coaches suspend their player for the next match no matter what the league/tournament/state/referee does. That is a strong stance on sporting behavior.

It is too bad that you think Greg Ryan does not support sporting behavior.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by huh?

It is too bad that you think Greg Ryan does not support sporting behavior.

I have no idea what Greg Ryan's stance is on sporting behavior and you have no idea what I think of him.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by huh?

hmmm.......Kristine Lilly played in the final match of a recent tournament, after receiving a red card in the previous match - because the tournament rules did not call for a suspension for a red card.

it happens all the time all over the world, that a player will receive a red card, or otherwise earn a suspension in one event, but still be allowed to continue to participate in a different event with his team. Think Champions League and XXX League play, where XXX is the domestic league. Or FA Cup and EPL.

referees should worry about the game on the day, not about administrative issues. officials have enough to try to do well without giving themselves the chance to be wrong in other areas that are not part of their duty. This is said as an official, admin, and coach, btw, before some of you get your undies in a bunch

Yes, it is clear that suspensions given during league play are served during league games, and suspensions earned during tournaments or international events apply to the next matches in those events.

As for your example with Ms. Lilly, I do not know anything about the situation, so I cannot comment. I do not know in what event this took place, I do not know what the regulations of it were, I do not know the details surrounding the red card, or what was written in the referee's post-match report. All I can say is that I have little doubt that the proper regulations governing the situation were followed.

Do you not agree that the coach could have left her out of the lineup for the following match as a consequence of her actions, if he so desired?

A great example of what I was talking about when I stated that SOME coaches (clearly not all) suspend their own players themselves occurred during this past summer's World Cup.
Following the US v. Italy match, Italian coach Marcello Lippi stated that De Rossi would be suspended by the Italian soccer federation and would not play in the next few matches for his elbow to the face of Brian McBride no matter what penalty FIFA eventually handed down. It was stated that the player's action was considered by the Italians as damaging to soccer's image. FIFA gave a four match ban. De Rossi wrote a letter of apology to FIFA and personally apologized to McBride. He did not play again in the tournament until the Final.

[huh?]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes, it is clear that suspensions given during league play are served during league games, and suspensions earned during tournaments or international events apply to the next matches in those events.

As for your example with Ms. Lilly, I do not know anything about the situation, so I cannot comment. I do not know in what event this took place, I do not know what the regulations of it were, I do not know the details surrounding the red card, or what was written in the referee's post-match report. All I can say is that I have little doubt that the proper regulations governing the situation were followed.

Do you not agree that the coach could have left her out of the lineup for the following match as a consequence of her actions, if he so desired?

A great example of what I was talking about when I stated that SOME coaches (clearly not all) suspend their own players themselves occurred during this past summer's World Cup.
Following the US v. Italy match, Italian coach Marcello Lippi stated that De Rossi would be suspended by the Italian soccer federation and would not play in the next few matches for his elbow to the face of Brian McBride no matter what penalty FIFA eventually handed down. It was stated that the player's action was considered by the Italians as damaging to soccer's image. FIFA gave a four match ban. De Rossi wrote a letter of apology to FIFA and personally apologized to McBride. He did not play again in the tournament until the Final.

sure, the coach could have done anything.

are you really going to use de Rossi's over the top violent conduct as your guide on how to deal with players who are ejected? btw, it is common knowledge that de Rossi had significant discipline issues before his attack on Mc Bride, and that Lippi's response was to the overall situation, not just the bad foul on Mc Bride. Lippi was opportunistic in his approach to paint his side in the best possible light.

bottom line - referees should concern themselves with the rules, not judging coaches on whether or not the coach has added additional discipline to that which the competition requires. this thread is an example of an official representing an idea that a player MUST serve a suspension after a red card according to FIFA, yet it is not true.

The Peace Queen Cup that the wnt just played in is an example, as are the examples I gave before. again, it is the referees job to apply the lotg and the rules of a competition to the game they are officiating. referees have enough to worry about without clouding their judgement with ideas about how coaches should deal with their players. if you want to coach, then do so. If you want to referee, then do that.

If you want to do both, go for it, it is great. Just remember which hat you are wearing at the moment, though.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

The requirement to "set out" a game for being ejected is not in TLOG. It is found in the FIFA "discipline procedures" document found on the FIFA website.

Could you please post a link to this document? I had no luck locating it when I went to FIFA.com and performed a search for it. Thanks.

[huh?]

nv - the code to which r2c refers has to do with matches and competitions organized by FIFA, not to every match sanctioned by FIFA.

I sure hope that there are not referees imposing bans based upon info like this. As I mentioned before, this is a reason why the referee should stick to managing the match itself, and not get involved in the administrative side of the game. If a player has a pass, he plays. If you suspect he is playing under false pretenses, by all means report it, but before we ban a kid from playing, we better make sure we are right!

here is the link

http://www.fifa.com/documents/static...ry_code_EN.pdf

[Nevadaref]

If I am ever fortunate enough to work a FIFA match, I'm sure that I will learn a great deal of this.
Also, I finally found the document. It is called the FIFA Disciplinary Code and that is why the search engine on the site wouldn't locate it. They really do have a poor search engine.

I have yet to read through all of it, so I can't speak to the veracity of the earlier claim.

[huh?]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If I am ever fortunate enough to work a FIFA match, I'm sure that I will learn a great deal of this.
Also, I finally found the document. It is called the FIFA Disciplinary Code and that is why the search engine on the site wouldn't locate it. They really do have a poor search engine.

I have yet to read through all of it, so I can't speak to the veracity of the earlier claim.

use the link i gave above, and look at article 19 on page 21. there is some other info before and after that which you may find useful, too.

not sure i will ever need to become intimately familiar with this doc, either

[ref2coach]

Huh, please read article 7, page 16 upon following your link.

In addition to being a referee I am also Disciplinary Chairman for a Club in TN.
We had a coach who challenged us on a one-match ban after being ejected. I checked with the TN State Soccer Association, a USSF affiliate. According to TSSA, USSF has "adapted" as requested by FIFA. The result, as we are a Club who is an affiliate of TSSA and TSSA is an Affiliate of USSF and USSF is an affiliate of FIFA; YES all persons ejected from a sanctioned match shall serve at least a one-match suspension. It is not often that an organization is best served by "reinventing the wheel".

The answer given is correct for the original question asked.

I did not say I, when refereeing would ever get involved the administrative details outside my scope of authority? In a USSF/USYSA "approved" game I will require a roster and each player to present a current USSF/USYSA player card. Nothing more, nothing less.

Regarding US Club Soccer, the experience I have had with them in the State of TN they do not enforce anything. The more "rouge" the club the more likely they have affiliated with US Club Soccer rather than the State USSF association.

[huh?]

r2c - I disagree, your answer may not be correct.

For example, if one of my players is sent off in his/her last game at regionals, that player does not necessarily come back and serve a suspension in his/her next league or tournament game at home - it depends upon the rules of the competition. I can tell you for a fact that said player would not serve a league suspension in my area.

Another example -in at least one state, a player playing in an amatuer (adult) game on his USYS player (and appropriate forms filled out) pass does not serve a suspension earned in the adult league by sitting out in any youth games - the suspension is served in the competition in which it was earned.

I have already given you the example of Kristine Lilly in an international event - sanctioned through FIFA, but not organized by FIFA. Players earning a Champions League ejection would not serve a suspension in their domestic league. Players earning a domestic cup ejection would not serve a suspension in their league.

your state may have players serve suspensions earned in other events, but that is neither a FIFA nor a USSF mandate. In the case mentioned, and in all cases, the correct answer is to check the rules of the competiton in which the player next plays. I hope this makes sense.

Your assessment of USCS clubs is off the mark for what exists in many areas of the country, too. There are just as many blue teams as red (rouge). If you meant rogue , I would say the same thing. It may be that it is not very organized in your area, but you should know that there are many very good clubs that participate as USCS teams every year in leagues and tourneys.