Thoughts on this release.

[bigjohn]

Response to Ohio's strict new rule on concussions.

Responsibility for recognizing concussions | OHSAA Football Officials

[scrounge]

No problem with it at all....yes, we don't need to be hyperactive about looking for things or doing the job of the trainers, but if we see it we can't abdicate our legal responsibility. The law includes a shield from liability, but not if we wantonly ignore our job.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by scrounge

No problem with it at all....yes, we don't need to be hyperactive about looking for things or doing the job of the trainers, but if we see it we can't abdicate our legal responsibility. The law includes a shield from liability, but not if we wantonly ignore our job.

This is the problem for me. Someone is bound to define "wantonly ignore our job" far more loosely, and suddenly it will be an issue if we just don't recognize the symptoms.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Response to Ohio's strict new rule on concussions.

Responsibility for recognizing concussions | OHSAA Football Officials

NFHS 3-5-10 has addressed this problem for many years, and covers concussions as well as any other "apparently injured player" situation. Game officials are NOT usually trained medical personnel, but we all should be responsible adults who recognize that the safety and health of participants in games we officiate is a primary focus.

Referring the player to the sideline for appropriate professional evaluation is a prudent protocol. Normally the player being sent back in to participate, after evaluation, is determined to be fit to play, and that conclusion is made by the appropriate sideline personnel, who it is reasonable to understand is also a, "responsible adults who recognize that the safety and health of participants in games we officiate is a primary focus".

However, in rare circumstances when the field officials remain uncomfortable with the player returning because of his behavior or actions, and there is concern that the player may still be, "an apparently injured player" they should simply reapply the instructions of NFHS 3-5-10 and refer the player back to the sideline for re-evaluation.

[maven]

Originally Posted by ajmc

NFHS 3-5-10 has addressed this problem for many years, and covers concussions as well as any other "apparently injured player" situation. Game officials are NOT usually trained medical personnel, but we all should be responsible adults who recognize that the safety and health of participants in games we officiate is a primary focus.

Referring the player to the sideline for appropriate professional evaluation is a prudent protocol. Normally the player being sent back in to participate, after evaluation, is determined to be fit to play, and that conclusion is made by the appropriate sideline personnel, who it is reasonable to understand is also a, "responsible adults who recognize that the safety and health of participants in games we officiate is a primary focus".

However, in rare circumstances when the field officials remain uncomfortable with the player returning because of his behavior or actions, and there is concern that the player may still be, "an apparently injured player" they should simply reapply the instructions of NFHS 3-5-10 and refer the player back to the sideline for re-evaluation.

Your remarks don't address the concern. The new law in Ohio (which OHSAA has adopted as policy) specifies that, if an official in any sport sends a player off and uses the word 'concussion', that player is ineligible to participate further in that contest and for the remainder of that day. Period, medical examination notwithstanding.

Coaches worry that this policy bypasses their medical personnel (one area football team has the chief of the Cleveland Clinic neurosurgery unit on its sideline) and makes the officials responsible for this call.

So officials find themselves in a crossfire between the state, which wants us to err on the side of safety and send kids off, and coaches and schools, who want us to do nothing.

The press release from the state is hardly illuminating, I would say, and merely describes the crossfire without proposing any remedy for it.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by maven

Your remarks don't address the concern. The new law in Ohio (which OHSAA has adopted as policy) specifies that, if an official in any sport sends a player off and uses the word 'concussion', that player is ineligible to participate further in that contest and for the remainder of that day. Period, medical examination notwithstanding.

Coaches worry that this policy bypasses their medical personnel (one area football team has the chief of the Cleveland Clinic neurosurgery unit on its sideline) and makes the officials responsible for this call.

So officials find themselves in a crossfire between the state, which wants us to err on the side of safety and send kids off, and coaches and schools, who want us to do nothing.

The press release from the state is hardly illuminating, I would say, and merely describes the crossfire without proposing any remedy for it.

Indiana only requires an approved medical personnel to clear the player without a concussion on the day he's removed. If the medical professional determines there was a concussion, he definitely can't return that day. And he must have approved medical personnel clear him in the future.

The reason I don't like the Ohio law (and I believe California has a similar policy) is we don't always make the right decision. We had a player who took a good hit on a play. He appeared to be wobbly on his feet and wouldn't answer questions from the R so he was sent out with apparent concussion symptoms. Turns out his mouth piece fell out when he was hit and he was trying to find it. He was confused about why the R was asking him a question. In Ohio and California he would have been done for the day. In Indiana, an approved medical person was able to determine there was nothing wrong with him.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by maven

Your remarks don't address the concern. The new law in Ohio (which OHSAA has adopted as policy) specifies that, if an official in any sport sends a player off and uses the word 'concussion', that player is ineligible to participate further in that contest and for the remainder of that day. Period, medical examination notwithstanding.

So officials find themselves in a crossfire between the state, which wants us to err on the side of safety and send kids off, and coaches and schools, who want us to do nothing.

The press release from the state is hardly illuminating, I would say, and merely describes the crossfire without proposing any remedy for it.

Apologies, Maven, perhaps I was being too subtle. Personally, I would never diagnose an injury, mainly because I don't have to. "Apparently injured" seems to cover everything.

I anticipate normally being very comfortable relying on the assessment of a medical professional and would bow to his/her assessment. In circumstances where I did not agree with an assessment that a player is fit to re-enter a game, I would exercise my responsibility under NFHS 3-5-10 and send him back out for additional assessment. If my doubts persisted, I would repeat the process until either my concerns were relieved, or they stopped sending the player back in.

I suspect such a chain of events would be exceptionally rare, and would require some extremely blatant and obvious difference of perceptions. The bottom line is if the Referee does not believe the player is fit to play, he doesn't play. That includes being willing to likely have to defend your assessment at some subsequent point.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Apologies, Maven, perhaps I was being too subtle. Personally, I would never diagnose an injury, mainly because I don't have to. "Apparently injured" seems to cover everything.

I anticipate normally being very comfortable relying on the assessment of a medical professional and would bow to his/her assessment. In circumstances where I did not agree with an assessment that a player is fit to re-enter a game, I would exercise my responsibility under NFHS 3-5-10 and send him back out for additional assessment. If my doubts persisted, I would repeat the process until either my concerns were relieved, or they stopped sending the player back in.

I suspect such a chain of events would be exceptionally rare, and would require some extremely blatant and obvious difference of perceptions. The bottom line is if the Referee does not believe the player is fit to play, he doesn't play. That includes being willing to likely have to defend your assessment at some subsequent point.

You seem to be missing that in Ohio, the referees have a legal obligation regarding apparent concussions. We don't diagnosis in the technical sense of the word, but we basically required to do so by law in practical terms and that assessment is legally superior to an actual diagnosis by a medical professional. Once the referees has identified an apparent sign of a concussion, it is illegal, not against the rules but actually against the law, for the player to return that day at all and he may not return after that day without being cleared by a doctor.

I understand the impulse for coaches to say, "We have actual medical professionals. Please don't look at my injured players." However, a referee in Ohio turning a blind eye to apparent symptoms of a concussion is going to land in real legal trouble given the new law.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

You seem to be missing that in Ohio, the referees have a legal obligation regarding apparent concussions. We don't diagnosis in the technical sense of the word, but we basically required to do so by law in practical terms and that assessment is legally superior to an actual diagnosis by a medical professional. Once the referees has identified an apparent sign of a concussion, it is illegal, not against the rules but actually against the law, for the player to return that day at all and he may not return after that day without being cleared by a doctor.

I understand the impulse for coaches to say, "We have actual medical professionals. Please don't look at my injured players." However, a referee in Ohio turning a blind eye to apparent symptoms of a concussion is going to land in real legal trouble given the new law.

On top of this, my concern has more to do with a situation where we just don't recognize any signs, and the player ends up in a bad state because he got hit after a concussion occurred. I know the law offers immunity if you're doing your job, but I don't think that'll be enough: at some point.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Adam

On top of this, my concern has more to do with a situation where we just don't recognize any signs, and the player ends up in a bad state because he got hit after a concussion occurred. I know the law offers immunity if you're doing your job, but I don't think that'll be enough: at some point.

That is a legitimate concern. OHSAA requires officials in all sports to take the NFHS concussion training course as a condition of renewing their permits this summer. An official who now fails to recognize symptoms of a concussion could be held negligent for doing so.

[KWH]

If OHIO did not want officials to make concussion determinations as per the NFHS Rules Book, I would think they would have written the new law to indicate such direction. Since they did not write the law that way, officials shall follow the written directions within the Rules Book. Otherwise, officials would not be performing the job they are hired to do.

That fact that some people have their panties in a Wadd because they feel "This law gives game officials some type of superpower" need contact there state legislature and get the law changed or they could go howl at the moon, or they could go pound sand.
It really doesn't matter what they do because the people doing the whining have no authority to do anything but whine...

Restated:
Attention All Whiners - Until the law is changed, Sit Down and Shut up!

[Adam]

So in your mind, we can't express our frustrations?

[HLin NC]

Simple, don't say the word "concussion" when you send him off, say "Have him checked out"

[maven]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Simple, don't say the word "concussion" when you send him off, say "Have him checked out"

[Altor]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Simple, don't say the word "concussion" when you send him off, say "Have him checked out"

And when the coach sends him back in and he gets seriously injured, you just became a defendant in a law suit that everybody will likely lose. But, at least you have insurance, right?