Wow! KCI

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by asdf

I get it....

You are right.... I am wrong.......

Interesting. I think what I do works for me. If you have to do something else as if your life depends on it, do that. Again, I do not have to work with you so it really makes no difference who is right or wrong.

Peace

[Welpe]

The coach best knows if his punt return team is worth a damn or not. Maybe they aren't or the kick returner has hands made of butter and that having the ball period is a good option for them.

The fouls don't offset automatically and the decision is not obvious so I'm giving them an option in this case.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The coach best knows if his punt return team is worth a damn or not. Maybe they aren't or the kick returner has hands made of butter and that having the ball period is a good option for them.

The fouls don't offset automatically and the decision is not obvious so I'm giving them an option in this case.

I agree with this. There are pluses and minuses to either option so we need to present them to the team. There are times the options are obvious (i.e. false start, encroachment, hold by A on a TD run). There are times when it may be obvious but you still want to check. I see this as one of them.

I had a similar situation in a late round playoff game. K is ahead by 7 with 40 seconds left. 4th and 16 from the K44. K gets the punt off and it goes out of bounds around the R35. I have a hold on the LG (obvious take down at the LOS). I report it to the R but tell him I assume R will decline it because R will likely want the ball with no more time taken off the clock (they are out of timeouts). I pick up my flag and head downfield to get the ball ready for the next series. My R yells at me that R wants the penalty. I go to get a ball from the K sideline and they don't understand why R wants the penalty. I enforce the penalty at the K40 back to the K30. I realize that since crazy things can happen on punts it may not be a bad idea to accept the penalty. Guess what...K's next kick goes out of bounds at the K28! Smart move by the R coach. They gained over 30 yards on the play. They tied the game and won in OT. Situations we think are obvious aren't always obvious. Ask as clearly as possible.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again, I do not have to work with you so it really makes no difference who is right or wrong.

There you go, all wrapped up in your own little universe. Maybe it doesn't make any difference in your game on that night.

But what about the crew that has that team next week? Or the week after? What are they to say when the coach says "The crew we had last week did it differently?"

That's why it makes a difference.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

There you go, all wrapped up in your own little universe. Maybe it doesn't make any difference in your game on that night.

But what about the crew that has that team next week? Or the week after? What are they to say when the coach says "The crew we had last week did it differently?"

That's why it makes a difference.

I do not think there is a right or wrong here. I think is you do what works for you and your crew and the people in your area. If you have to ask someone about this situation, then do just that. Why would I care when you are not only in a different state, but a different region of the country? Are my teams going to play you anytime soon? We are not talking about college football where teams play in different state on a regular even at the small college level. And even at that level I do not know many Referees that ask in this very situation and they are much more dismissive about the decision then I am.

Yes, I live in a universe that most here never would be around even to have this debate. You do not live here. You likely have not done much that I have done here. You probably do not work college ball on my crew or are on the supplemental list that I am on in another level. We have guys here that brag about not giving a measurement during a game, you think they really are going out of their way to debate if they are going to have a double foul in a situation we are discussing? And I am not the Referee on a regular basis, so I do not have to worry about it either way. I just think this is an easy replay with the information we were given and if you feel it has to be an issue, then make it one and ask the coach or the captain as many times as you like.

Let it go already. I do not have to be you to feel good about myself.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think there is a right or wrong here. I think is you do what works for you and your crew and the people in your area. If you have to ask someone about this situation, then do just that. Why would I care when you are not only in a different state, but a different region of the country? Are my teams going to play you anytime soon? We are not talking about college football where teams play in different state on a regular even at the small college level. And even at that level I do not know many Referees that ask in this very situation and they are much more dismissive about the decision then I am.

Yes, I live in a universe that most here never would be around even to have this debate. You do not live here. You likely have not done much that I have done here. You probably do not work college ball on my crew or are on the supplemental list that I am on in another level. We have guys here that brag about not giving a measurement during a game, you think they really are going out of their way to debate if they are going to have a double foul in a situation we are discussing? And I am not the Referee on a regular basis, so I do not have to worry about it either way. I just think this is an easy replay with the information we were given and if you feel it has to be an issue, then make it one and ask the coach or the captain as many times as you like.

Let it go already. I do not have to be you to feel good about myself.

Peace

You know, I'm all for not asking captains (at all, I usually ask the coaches from a distance if I can), but the difference between keeping the ball as B and making A punt again is far from obvious. Making this a double foul is far from obvious. Even if they get the ball at the 15 or 20, I'm asking the question. Many teams aren't fond of their punt return teams, etc. and would simply prefer taking the ball.

Also, I'd want the coach to know he had the option of keeping the ball and not give A another 4th down play. If I don't do that, I think I'm being negligent in my duties.

I'd ask in a college game, too.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

You know, I'm all for not asking captains (at all, I usually ask the coaches from a distance if I can), but the difference between keeping the ball as B and making A punt again is far from obvious. Making this a double foul is far from obvious. Even if they get the ball at the 15 or 20, I'm asking the question. Many teams aren't fond of their punt return teams, etc. and would simply prefer taking the ball.

Also, I'd want the coach to know he had the option of keeping the ball and not give A another 4th down play. If I don't do that, I think I'm being negligent in my duties.

I'd ask in a college game, too.

You know Rich, if I was on your crew in that situation, I would be OK with you asking. I honestly do not care either way.

Also this is a situation that if done right you would hardly have to ask. The wing or other officials should already get to the coach and tell them they can replay the down or they can take the ball with a penalty assessed. That should take 5 seconds to get that information and we would be moving at a quick pace. And I cannot think of many situations where the team would not just make it a double foul as they want to take their chances to get a better result then being on their side of the field at their 35 yard line. This to me is like asking when the FG angle might change after a false start or encroachment, there are times they can decline the yardage but we rarely ask. I am OK with what the crew is comfortable with. Just because I might have a personal view, that view does not override my crew.

Peace