Positioning of R

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have worked 2 State Finals in the State of Illinois in football. I have had two different Referees that are IHSA Clinicians now and then. Both Referees always, ALWAYS went to the thrower's arm side of the players. The first State Final, that Referee is now an assignor and name is on the IHSA Mechanics PowerPoint with the Head Clinician. And that Referee (in our first state final as a crew) runs one of the best football camps in the state for HS during the summer and was the producer of the "2013 Crew of 5 Training" DVD with Bill LeMonnier, they only teach to be on the arm of the QB. I cannot even believe this is a debate on any level from any clinician in our state. If that QB is hit, you have no perspective on the motion of the arm. Also going to the sideline is one of the most overrated things when you have a BJ that is supposed to get to the sideline in most situations and even Umpires come over as support as well. I just do not get the thinking that you need to stay wide.

Peace

I'm with you. I help with cleanup if the play's to my side. If it's to the far side, the BJ gets in there. We've talked about this as a crew. I do not want to sacrifice the passer's arm side for anything, regardless of the number of officials.

I don't understand the comment above about the RB going OOB. I mean, we have wing officials, after all.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm with you. I help with cleanup if the play's to my side. If it's to the far side, the BJ gets in there. We've talked about this as a crew. I do not want to sacrifice the passer's arm side for anything, regardless of the number of officials.

I don't understand the comment above about the RB going OOB. I mean, we have wing officials, after all.

And as a BJ, I get to the sideline regardless of where the Referee is located. That is what we are supposed to do no matter who goes over there. Players are in enemy territory, we get them out of there. And my Referee gets over there too. I think we put too much restrictions on what we are supposed to do as officials. The only major difference I see with 5 person is the fact we do not have 2 deep wings and we have to compensate for DWs not being there. Otherwise we move in 5.

Peace

[CT1]

For 5-man ... why in the world do you care about the RB going OOB on the wide side. Not your job.

I don't understand the comment above about the RB going OOB. I mean, we have wing officials, after all.

Maybe it's a regional thing. We have many plays each game where a RB or QB goes into the opposite sideline and the potential for misconduct is high. Certainly it's the wing's primary area. It's the responsibility of the BJ and the R to get over there to help police the OOB action.

Really, now -- how many times do you actually have to rule on a QB pass/fumble in a year? And of those, how many are so close that you can only get it right from the passing arm side? How many are in potential game-changing situations?

I prefer to have the field balanced.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

Maybe it's a regional thing. We have many plays each game where a RB or QB goes into the opposite sideline and the potential for misconduct is high. Certainly it's the wing's primary area. It's the responsibility of the BJ and the R to get over there to help police the OOB action.

Really, now -- how many times do you actually have to rule on a QB pass/fumble in a year? And of those, how many are so close that you can only get it right from the passing arm side? How many are in potential game-changing situations?

I prefer to have the field balanced.

Here is the thing, you do not have many plays to rule on a QB arm is throwing, but when you do that is a big play. That play usually is a turnover and changes the game. A play on the sideline is normal and does not change the game. And you do not need many officials over to cover such a play. As I said before, the BJ's role is to go to the sideline on plays and I know I go into the sideline when a RB or defender goes into the sideline. If the QB is moving to the sideline, the Referee follows them and watches them anyway so it is not like they are far behind.

And as stated, you have multiple officials that come over to the sideline when players go there, including a wing that is already there. You have not convinced me there is an extra benefit for being on the wide side unless you have an umpire and BJ that stays completely in the middle of the field as if their life depends on it. I think we have too many silly standards about things that do not help us officiate.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CT1

Maybe it's a regional thing. We have many plays each game where a RB or QB goes into the opposite sideline and the potential for misconduct is high. Certainly it's the wing's primary area. It's the responsibility of the BJ and the R to get over there to help police the OOB action.

I guess I have to ask how often you actually need to police this. Have eyes on it ... sure. How often does your actual physical presence change things?

Also ... if the play comes toward you, you're letting it flow past before you follow anyway. Are you really getting more than 1 step closer to the action by starting on the off side? At best you're saving yourself the need to hustle a little bit.

Really, now -- how many times do you actually have to rule on a QB pass/fumble in a year? And of those, how many are so close that you can only get it right from the passing arm side? How many are in potential game-changing situations?

Granted - once or twice a year do you have to rule on this ... but on ALL of those, you can only get it right from the passing arm side.

I prefer to have the field balanced.

I would not want to trade off certainty vs a guess on the fumble play twice a year - usually a game changer, since this often results in a defensive TD, and possibly get that one wrong, in return for being one step closer to action on a sweep and save myself a little bit of hustling.

[REFANDUMP]

The starting position on the wide side would be less than 10 yards different than the starting position on the passing arm side. Does that 10 yards advantage gained to help out of bounds coverage mean more than being in the best position to see a play where a potential turnover is involved, and in many cases a defensive touchdown. As a referee, we have help on out of bounds plays. We have none on action involving the quarterback.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

The starting position on the wide side would be less than 10 yards different than the starting position on the passing arm side. Does that 10 yards advantage gained to help out of bounds coverage mean more than being in the best position to see a play where a potential turnover is involved, and in many cases a defensive touchdown. As a referee, we have help on out of bounds plays. We have none on action involving the quarterback.

Not to mention that on most of these plays, if we were on the side being recommended, we're letting the play go in front of us before we trail - giving up the majority of that 10 yards anyway.

[Rich]

To me, "working the wide side" just sounds like a mechanics system that hasn't adopted to current philosophy or practice. Reminds me of the crews whose wings still start on the numbers when the ball's on the far hash mark. I get that some states still ascribe to this. However, none of the top referees I know (I'm not including myself on this list) work anything other than the passer's arm side.

To each their own. I'll continue to work on the passing arm side where I feel I belong. And (back to the OP), the OP shouldn't let other people on the crew tell *him* where to work.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

To me, "working the wide side" just sounds like a mechanics system that hasn't adopted to current philosophy or practice. Reminds me of the crews whose wings still start on the numbers when the ball's on the far hash mark. I get that some states still ascribe to this. However, none of the top referees I know (I'm not including myself on this list) work anything other than the passer's arm side.

To each their own. I'll continue to work on the passing arm side where I feel I belong. And (back to the OP), the OP shouldn't let other people on the crew tell *him* where to work.

And to add to that, in our state we have a very bad action where one part of the state does one thing and another part does something differnet. And you have people in one part of the state that want to hold on to these "mechanics" that have proven that cause problems with coverage of the game. And it expemplifies itself when the State Finals come when you see officials working teams they are not used to, not being able to handle sytles of football they might not see. That does not mean everyone in certain parts of the state adopt those mechanics or philosophies, but enough of them do where is it noticable. In our state everyone from the 6 regions has a crew that works the State Finals and two other wild card crews are picked from those 6 regions. I think that is the thing IR is battling as no one in our area (but the person that he spoke to) would even suggest such a silly thing to do. But then there is a reason crews in our area also do not work certain games or for certain assignors. And this kind of insistence on some mechanic that brings more issues then it solves.

Peace

[CT1]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I guess I have to ask how often you actually need to police this. Have eyes on it ... sure. How often does your actual physical presence change things?

Well, we won't ever know, will we? However, our state's philosophy is "the more stripes the better", and with the history of teams fighting in our state, that's not a bad idea.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

Well, we won't ever know, will we? However, our state's philosophy is "the more stripes the better", and with the history of teams fighting in our state, that's not a bad idea.

Why is closer better? What are your other officials asked to do?

Peace

[Illini_Ref]

Told the crew last night that I was staying passing arm side. Worked there all night. No problems.