EJ in the Superbowl

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Football is a game involving extreme personal contact between players age 6 through 60. Would it make any sense to apply basic rules exactly the same across all the various levels?

The majority of disqualifications I've seen, with the exception of a deliberate "cheap shot" are not produced by that initial action, but are the result of subsequent actions or reactions or built upon previous actions or reactions.

AJ - are you aware we are talking about a player putting two hands on an official and shoving him away?

[johnnyg08]

I think my baseball analogy in this situation is relevant to the nature of the discussion we're having here because game management is game management.

Only in the WWF (World Wrestling Federation) have I seen an official shoved in that manner and get away with it. Obviously the official chose to keep Mr. #29 in the game. That is his right as the official. I happened to disagree with his judgment which by the likes of what I'm reading on here means that I should keep my aspirations to move up on the baseball diamond and not on the football field which I am okay with.

I will stick to my guns though and say that if he had ejected him, all of you would be talking about what a great "textbook" EJ that was.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I think my baseball analogy in this situation is relevant to the nature of the discussion we're having here because game management is game management.

Only in the WWF (World Wrestling Federation) have I seen an official shoved in that manner and get away with it. Obviously the official chose to keep Mr. #29 in the game. That is his right as the official. I happened to disagree with his judgment which by the likes of what I'm reading on here means that I should keep my aspirations to move up on the baseball diamond and not on the football field which I am okay with.

I will stick to my guns though and say that if he had ejected him, all of you would be talking about what a great "textbook" EJ that was.

OK if you think that is relevant when there are so many side issues to what baseball does in general, be my guest. I am just stating that pro ball overall is very different than what those do at the HS and college ranks for a reason. And what you call "textbook" is going to vary by level and even sometimes conference a person is working. I am not disagreeing with your opinion from the HS level, but that is a vary narrow way to look at what happens in the pros.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

OK if you think that is relevant when there are so many side issues to what baseball does in general, be my guest. I am just stating that pro ball overall is very different than what those do at the HS and college ranks for a reason. And what you call "textbook" is going to vary by level and even sometimes conference a person is working. I am not disagreeing with your opinion from the HS level, but that is a vary narrow way to look at what happens in the pros.

Peace

I know you're prone to stick with your opinion no matter what, but I must say I've never seen you this far out on a limb before. You keep relying on the "it's different in the pros" as if no one here has ever watched a game, but you've watched and officiated them all.

Truly, this argument is absurd. Show me (video or an article) a SINGLE instance of a player getting away with a 2-hand shove on an official without an ejection, (just ONE!!!) and there might be some credibility to your opinion here. I don't believe one exists. I KNOW I've seen ejections for FAR less player-official contact in the NFL, and yes, in the playoffs. Burden of proof is in your corner, Jeff... and your tried and true, "I don't have to convince you, I know I'm right" argument tactics won't work here.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I know you're prone to stick with your opinion no matter what, but I must say I've never seen you this far out on a limb before. You keep relying on the "it's different in the pros" as if no one here has ever watched a game, but you've watched and officiated them all.

Truly, this argument is absurd. Show me (video or an article) a SINGLE instance of a player getting away with a 2-hand shove on an official without an ejection, (just ONE!!!) and there might be some credibility to your opinion here. I don't believe one exists. I KNOW I've seen ejections for FAR less player-official contact in the NFL, and yes, in the playoffs. Burden of proof is in your corner, Jeff... and your tried and true, "I don't have to convince you, I know I'm right" argument tactics won't work here.

I did not realize I must agree with you in order to have a discussion on this or any other topic. Thanks for letting me know that someone states something here I must completely change my mind and invalidate my personal experience, what I have witnessed and what I have been directly involved in or what I have heard individuals that actualy work those levels have to say.

Once again I did not say that there was not a different standard at the levels you and I would work. But I do know of very different standards as to what would lead to an ejection if you change the circumstances. And maybe I have not seen a 2 handed push like that took place here, but I have seen individuals that would be ejected for stuff in my game, not have the same requirement in games I watch on TV. And once again, I was taught to not contact players the way these officials did in this situation for reasons of liablity and helping to escalate a conflict. That is OK with the NFL because they are all grown and any action is not under the same jurisdiction of liablity as everyone works for the same company. Players, officials and coaches are subjected to the overall organization and employees, while what we do are independent contractors working for a singular fee in our games. And all I am disagreeing with here is it is not an "automatic" as you state or it would have resulted in an ejection. Unless you are prevy to some communications with the NFL and their staff, you have little idea what might be discussed as other things have a philsophy. I know there is a standard or opinion about how holding is called and that standard does not necessarily come down to what we have been instructed at the HS level.

Sorry that what I say seems to absolutely offend you as you tend to troll around looking to make pot shots at me because I tend to take a more objective position then always assuming because I work HS and college that I know what NFL guys should be doing. It is much more complicated than that and once again, if it was a slam dunk ejection, why did the officials keep this player in the game? It is a simple question to answer. Better yet, why was their only offsetting penalties when I can tell you in my games there likely would have been more penalties involved with the multiple problems going on in that pushing match. Forget just what happen with the officials, what about all the players that continued without stopping? I do not work that level but I would assume there is some philosophy as to how those situations are to be handled. Was it handled properly at that level? I really do not know the answer. I just know that no one was ejected even with a "push" to an official. And having watched recent fights in the NBA and MLB, it is clear the officials are given different instructions how they put their hands on players to stop brawls.

Peace

[bisonlj]

I hate to admit I somewhat agree with JRut's posts here. I won't be as argumentative. I can't remember any time I've seen a player ejected for contacting an official in the NFL. I'm sure I've seen it but I don't remember the circumstance. I do know there was a play earlier where Cam Newton bumped into an official (think it was Boger too) and he was not ejected.

My guess is contacting an official in the NFL has a threshold that results in ejection. This may or may not have reached that level but none of us know. JRut isn't saying he wouldn't eject at the levels he works. He's just saying none of us know if the ejection should have happened in this situation. We may eventually hear something from the league.

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Truly, this argument is absurd. Show me (video or an article) a SINGLE instance of a player getting away with a 2-hand shove on an official without an ejection, (just ONE!!!) and there might be some credibility to your opinion here. I don't believe one exists. I KNOW I've seen ejections for FAR less player-official contact in the NFL, and yes, in the playoffs. Burden of proof is in your corner, Jeff... and your tried and true, "I don't have to convince you, I know I'm right" argument tactics won't work here.

It probably doesn't meet the exact requirement laid out, but there was a pretty high profile shove/bump earlier this year involving Cam Newton and Jerome Boger that did not result in an ejection. Cam Newton gets chippy with Oakland Raiders, officials - NFL Videos Personally, I think the Newton clip was worse because there was clear intent.

You can't really judge intent in the middle of a melee. I'm not going to dig through 100s of hours of clips on someone else's behalf to find examples of officials getting pushed in the middle of skirmishes. I know I've seen it at the NFL level, though. The standard is simply, different.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I hate to admit I somewhat agree with JRut's posts here. I won't be as argumentative. I can't remember any time I've seen a player ejected for contacting an official in the NFL. I'm sure I've seen it but I don't remember the circumstance. I do know there was a play earlier where Cam Newton bumped into an official (think it was Boger too) and he was not ejected.

My guess is contacting an official in the NFL has a threshold that results in ejection. This may or may not have reached that level but none of us know. JRut isn't saying he wouldn't eject at the levels he works. He's just saying none of us know if the ejection should have happened in this situation. We may eventually hear something from the league.

Brandon Stokely ejected



This was an ejection that happened that did not involve a shove.

Peace

[HLin NC]

Obviously given the Stokely ejection, it seems to be up to the individual official's tolerance level.

Here is one involving NO contact.

DeAngelo Hall goes nuts, gets ejected - YouTube

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I hate to admit I somewhat agree with JRut's posts here. I won't be as argumentative. I can't remember any time I've seen a player ejected for contacting an official in the NFL. I'm sure I've seen it but I don't remember the circumstance. I do know there was a play earlier where Cam Newton bumped into an official (think it was Boger too) and he was not ejected.

My guess is contacting an official in the NFL has a threshold that results in ejection. This may or may not have reached that level but none of us know. JRut isn't saying he wouldn't eject at the levels he works. He's just saying none of us know if the ejection should have happened in this situation. We may eventually hear something from the league.

I can agree with this.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I can agree with this.

And I said that along time ago. Just sayin.

Peace

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And I said that along time ago. Just sayin.

Peace

You win. I lose.

[JRutledge]

What did I win?

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And I said that along time ago. Just sayin.

Peace

Sometimes it's in the way it's said. Emotion and attitude don't always come across accurately online.

[Multiple Sports]

If Mike Gundy (ftball coach at Ok. St) was discussing this he would say, "Push

Me!!!!!, cause I'M A MAN!!!!!!"