"Traveling" Signal at snap

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bkdow

Why are we still talking about this? No one is going to change his mind. He'll call it and the rest of us will not.

I agree, but what is the harm talking about this? People have differing opinions and will on this like other issues.

Sometimes it is good to talk these things out so when you are faced with these situations or you make this call, what the potential reaction will be. If officials think this is silly to call, what do you think a coach is going to say?

And for the record I disagree big time with our head clinician on this and he would have to tell us we should have called this to buy his position on this topic.

Peace

[Welpe]

I'm fine with this discussion continuing but please let's ensure we maintain our decorum.

[maven]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Legal play as long as they all set for 1 second without mvt prior to the snap.

Bruce

So there is the answer in Ohio.

And everywhere else. As everyone but you has been saying.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by maven

They don't. Some apparently think that the movement described in the OP is equivalent to the QB dropping under the snapper, which by interpretation IS a shift.

The QB moving his hands under the snapper is a shift because his whole upper body moves and because it's akin to a lineman dropping to a 3-point stance.

More broadly, you can do some things in that position that you're not doing otherwise. The idea of a shift is that you give up one position for another -- or at least you threaten to do so, in some shifts that bring you back to where you started. Rolling your hands isn't like that.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Ohio State Rules Interpreter Bruce Mauer says.



Check Page 58, Rule 7-2-6: says "without movement of hands". I would probably warn them the first time, then penalize them afterwards, unless they simulated the snap or drew B to encroach. I do not know if I have ever seen that type of mvt with receivers before. The key is they can do it initially, but must remain "without movement" for 1 sec before the snap.

Bruce

then after I pointed out that all had been stationary for 1 second he replied this:

Legal play as long as they all set for 1 second without mvt prior to the snap.

Bruce

So there is the answer in Ohio.

Which is exactly what everyone but you has been saying.

When you read the rule, you insert "immediately" into the phrase "prior to the snap." The rule is not remain stationary for at least one second immediately prior to the snap.

[bigjohn]

So basically after everyone has set for one second all backs could do jumping jacks prior to the snap as long as the officials deem this not to be a false start, all movement is ok except motion, which is not defined and simulating a start??

[Welpe]

John why do you always insist on dragging things into the absurd?

[bigjohn]

What is the definition of motion?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

What is the definition of motion?

What is the intent of the rule? Have you ever seen anyone doing jumping jacks on a football field while getting into formation?

Peace

[umpirebob71]

mo'tion n 1a moving;change of position 2 gesture 3 proposal made at a meeting - v. make, or direct by, gestures. Webser's Dictionary

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

What is the definition of motion?

Different from the definition of ILLEGAL motion.

[bigjohn]

Define illegal motion then.

[Robert Goodman]

"Motion" in general (in those cases where simulating the start of play is not the issue) should be understood as gaining a head start of some kind, not breathing, blinking, sign language, scratching an itch, etc.

[HLin NC]

There is no definition of "motion" per se in NFHS rules. They only state that only one player may be in motion at the snap and then only if that motion is not towards the opponents goalline. If the motion doesn't meet that criteria or the portion about being established in the back then that is defined as illegal motion.

So the action is not an illegal motion as it is not moving forward at the snap. It is not an illegal shift if they have moved from a huddle or other set position to another set position. It is not a false start if they have not shifted or feigned an action simulating action at the snap, committed an act "clearly intended" to cause B to encroach, or a lineman that has placed a hand on/near the ground and picked it up or made a quick movement.

There is no "A must remain as a statue" prior to the snap rule.

[bigjohn]

well if you define the action as motion, there are 3 of them doing it at the same time. That is illegal, I am pretty sdure.