"Traveling" Signal at snap

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I honestly think this is a HTBT situation more than anything. Because I do not think he would advocate any movement from the receivers or even line just because they move their arms. We allow so many other movements, unless the movement was jerky or animated, I still cannot see how I would even call this.

Peace

Agree that it's a HTBT situation; however, his words are it's an illegal shift, at least.

[REFANDUMP]

What I think we can agree on, is that I hope we never see this !!!:

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I could buy a false start (if it is herky, jerky and animated), but not a shift under and circumstances. And a FS would be a stretch for me.

Peace

The NFHS has defined it as a shift when the QB takes his hands and puts them under center. So I could see this defined as a shift, sure.

[MD Longhorn]

For what it's worth, which may be minimal, I've now asked 5 FED guys with vastly more FED experience than me, and none of them think this should be illegal as long as it's not done suddenly as if to draw someone off.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

The NFHS has defined it as a shift when the QB takes his hands and puts them under center. So I could see this defined as a shift, sure.

I believe they defined an action to move under the center, not just putting your hands under center.

Peace

[maven]

7.2.7 SITUATION: The quarterback by voice command has signaled his teammates
to assume a set position while he is standing upright behind the center.
The quarterback steps forward and places his hands under the center to receive
the snap: (a) at the instant the snap is made; or (b) which is made after he is
motionless, but prior to one second having elapsed; or (c) which is made after he
is motionless for one second; or (d) which is made after he is motionless for one
second, but while he is stepping backward with one foot as the snap is made.
RULING: In (a), it is illegal motion. In (b), it is an illegal shift. In (c), it is legal. In
(d), it is legal unless a teammate is also in motion at the snap. COMMENT: If the
quarterback drops his hands under the snapper without stepping forward, it is a
shift and not motion. (2-39; 7-2-6)

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

The NFHS has defined it as a shift when the QB takes his hands and puts them under center. So I could see this defined as a shift, sure.

Yes it's a shift. But early in the game, I'm talking to the QB rather than flagging this. If it persists, I'll have to get it.

[Adam]

I'm just on my first year of football, but I don't see how hand signals constitute a shift.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm just on my first year of football, but I don't see how hand signals constitute a shift.

They don't. Some apparently think that the movement described in the OP is equivalent to the QB dropping under the snapper, which by interpretation IS a shift.

The QB moving his hands under the snapper is a shift because his whole upper body moves and because it's akin to a lineman dropping to a 3-point stance.

The end giving hand signals is not sufficiently similar, IMHO, to be considered a shift.

[bigjohn]

They don't?????

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

They don't?????

Starting to wonder if you even watch football. Thanks for quoting the same rule 3 times now. NO ONE requires WR's arms, head, hands to be completely still. By interpretation, not in "motion" is not the same as "motionless". No one is going to flag a receiver who turns his head to look at the official to make sure he's where he's supposed to be. No one is going to flag a QB for standing upright, signaling to someone, getting right back under center and snapping the ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Starting to wonder if you even watch football. Thanks for quoting the same rule 3 times now. NO ONE requires WR's arms, head, hands to be completely still. By interpretation, not in "motion" is not the same as "motionless". No one is going to flag a receiver who turns his head to look at the official to make sure he's where he's supposed to be. No one is going to flag a QB for standing upright, signaling to someone, getting right back under center and snapping the ball.

Seems to me if one considers this a shift, one would need to consider it a shift when the QB turns his head (without even standing upright) to yell signals.

[CT1]

BigJohn:

The phrase "remain stationary...for at least one second before the snap" does NOT mean that further motion after the stop is prohibited -- in fact, it's quite common to have a player go in motion after the stop.

[bkdow]

Why are we still talking about this? No one is going to change his mind. He'll call it and the rest of us will not.

[bigjohn]

Ohio State Rules Interpreter Bruce Mauer says.



Check Page 58, Rule 7-2-6: says "without movement of hands". I would probably warn them the first time, then penalize them afterwards, unless they simulated the snap or drew B to encroach. I do not know if I have ever seen that type of mvt with receivers before. The key is they can do it initially, but must remain "without movement" for 1 sec before the snap.

Bruce

then after I pointed out that all had been stationary for 1 second he replied this:

Legal play as long as they all set for 1 second without mvt prior to the snap.

Bruce

So there is the answer in Ohio.