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Fri Apr 18, 2003, 10:14am
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LOL
1a). A1 is running at the A-35 when he leaps to catch a legal pass. While airborne he possesses the ball at the A-35, before he comes down he is contacted by B1 and the ball comes loose. A1, still airborne, regains control of the ball at the A-34, and contacts the ground on the A-33 where he is immediately tackled... 1b). Everything is the same in the two scenes EXCEPT there is no bobble of the ball by A1 2). A 2/goal @ B-1, A1 takes a handoff at the B-3 and launches self towards B's end zone. He is met short of the goal line by B1. A1 then is forced backwards. Still airborne. And lands on his feet at the B-3 when he then runs into the end zone 3). A 3/5 @ A-40. A1 throws a legal forward pass that bounces off the head of the Umpire (who because of his large protruding Snickers filled girth, cant bend over more then a few inches) The ball is. a) Caught by A88 who gets yanked down by one dangling chin strap @ the A-45 b) Caught by A56 who gets yanked down by the back opening of his helmet at the A-43 c) Batted by A56 who is standing at the A-39 to A88 who is tackled at the A-45. d) Still in the air when it is deflected and falls incomplete after hitting the school mascot Derock the Emu who had wondered onto the field after slipping away from his handlers who were caught under the belchers smoking cigarettes they'd found in the pocket of the coachs coat that was left unattended under the team bench. e) Still in the air when it is deflected by Derock the Emu and is caught by B55 who advances to the A-10. Give rulings, all options and don't forget the clock! 
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Fri Apr 18, 2003, 10:44am
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by James Neil
[B]LOL 1a). A1 is running at the A-35 when he leaps to catch a legal pass. While airborne he possesses the ball at the A-35, before he comes down he is contacted by B1 and the ball comes loose. A1, still airborne, regains control of the ball at the A-34, and contacts the ground on the A-33 where he is immediately tackled... >>A's ball @ A-33, clock on ready. Disregard possession in air at A-35 as he lost possession and regained it. 1b). Everything is the same in the two scenes EXCEPT there is no bobble of the ball by A1 >>A's ball @ A-35 (forward progress), clock on ready 2). A 2/goal @ B-1, A1 takes a handoff at the B-3 and launches self towards B's end zone. He is met short of the goal line by B1. A1 then is forced backwards. Still airborne. And lands on his feet at the B-3 when he then runs into the end zone >>Touchdown A (assuming progress wasn't stopped when he ran into B1) Clock stopped on TD 3). A 3/5 @ A-40. A1 throws a legal forward pass that bounces off the head of the Umpire (who because of his large protruding Snickers filled girth, cant bend over more then a few inches) The ball is. a) Caught by A88 who gets yanked down by one dangling chin strap @ the A-45 >> Not sure about the strap. I think grabbing the strap is a foul (facemask), then A 1/10 @ B-45, clock on snap. If no foul, then A 1/10 @ A-45. Clock on ready. b) Caught by A56 who gets yanked down by the back opening of his helmet at the A-43 >> A 4/2 @ A-43. No foul. Clock on ready. c) Batted by A56 who is standing at the A-39 to A88 who is tackled at the A-45. >> Batting legal, no new impetus. A's ball @ A-45. Clock on the ready. d) Still in the air when it is deflected and falls incomplete after hitting the school mascot Derock the Emu who had wondered onto the field after slipping away from his handlers who were caught under the belchers smoking cigarettes they'd found in the pocket of the coachs coat that was left unattended under the team bench. >> I think this team is in my league!! Unclear if the coach was Team A's coach. Let's assume he was, then first we give have UC on Coach A for bringing his tobacco on the field. That's -15 and we send the coach to the showers (to have a smoke in the boys toilets). Then we hit A again for the non-player foul for 'ol Derock masquerading as an official on the field. Another -15 yds for A. Let's see, it's A 4/32 1/2 @ A-12 1/2. Clock on snap. e) Still in the air when it is deflected by Derock the Emu and is caught by B55 who advances to the A-10. >> Again, assuming A is home team (someone else can do B), I believe you have UC on A at the previous spot. A 3/20 @ A-25, clock on the snap. I might have really kicked these, but would appreciate everyone's input. Thanks.
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Fri Apr 18, 2003, 01:20pm
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Fri Apr 18, 2003, 05:28pm
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Well JMN, By the lack of input from others I can only surmise that all are in agreement with you. If that's the case Im in big do-do because Ive come up with some different rulings on some of these. Lets check it out
1a). A1 is running at the A-35 when he leaps to catch a legal pass. While airborne he possesses the ball at the A-35, before he comes down he is contacted by B1 and the ball comes loose. A1, still airborne, regains control of the ball at the A-34, and contacts the ground on the A-33 where he is immediately tackled... >>A's ball @ A-33, clock on ready. Disregard possession in air at A-35 as he lost possession and regained it. Im giving A1 the benefit of forward progress to the 35 where he first gained possession. Even though A1 momentarily lost possession he regained it before touching the ground. Im basing my ruling on NF 2-4-1...A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight and first contacting the ground inbounds or being contacted by an opponent in such a way that he is prevented from returning to the ground inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball. NF 2-15-2 ...When an airborne player makes a catch, forward progress is the furthest point of advancement after he possesses the ball if contacted by a defender. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ 2). A 2/goal @ B-1, A1 takes a handoff at the B-3 and launches self towards B's end zone. He is met short of the goal line by B1. A1 then is forced backwards. Still airborne. And lands on his feet at the B-3 when he then runs into the end zone >>Touchdown A (assuming progress wasn't stopped when he ran into B1) Clock stopped on T I agree here with you about the TD but my reasoning is a little different. At one point of his run A1s progress was stopped by B1. But he wasnt held so that his forward progress was stopped . This play shows why its good to keep your whistle out of your mouth during the down ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ 3). A 3/5 @ A-40. A1 throws a legal forward pass that bounces off the head of the Umpire (who because of his large protruding Snickers filled girth, cant bend over more then a few inches) The ball is. a) Caught by A88 who gets yanked down by one dangling chin strap @ the A-45 >> Not sure about the strap. I think grabbing the strap is a foul (facemask), then A 1/10 @ B-45, clock on snap. If no foul, then A 1/10 @ A-45. Clock on I see no foul here except if you determine A88 wasn't wearing his equment properly during the down. If you saw it hanging before the snap and weren't able to blow it dead or get him to snap it up before the ball became live then its a 5 yarder from the previous spot. If you see it loose during the down you must assume it came loose because of action during the down. BTW .. if it was a foul , why would you start the clock on the snap ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ b) Caught by A56 who gets yanked down by the back opening of his helmet at the A-43 >> A 4/2 @ A-43. No foul. Clock on ready I say Foul! NF 9-4-2h ...No player shall grasp an opponents facemask or any edge of a helmet opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ c) Batted by A56 who is standing at the A-39 to A88 who is tackled at the A-45. ">> Batting legal, no new impetus. A's ball @ A-45. Clock on the ready<<" I believe we got some problems with this play JMN . That big fat Ump has got A56 into some deep do-do too LOL Restrictions for ineligibles don't lift just because Fat-So got into the way. NF 7-5-13 ...An ineligible A player has illegally touched a forward pass if he bats, muffs or catches a forward pass while he is in or behind the NZ unless the pass has been touched by B NF 9-7-3 ...Any pass in flight may be batted in any direction, by an ELIGIBLE RECEIVER (caps are mine) unless it is a backward pass batted forward by the passing team A 56 is ineligible and has batted a forward pass forward to boot. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ d) Still in the air when it is deflected and falls incomplete after hitting the school mascot Derock the Emu who had wondered onto the field after slipping away from his handlers who were caught under the belchers smoking cigarettes they'd found in the pocket of the coachs coat that was left unattended under the team bench. ">> I think this team is in my league!! Unclear if the coach was Team A's coach. Let's assume he was, then first we give have UC on Coach A for bringing his tobacco on the field. That's -15 and we send the coach to the showers (to have a smoke in the boys toilets). Then we hit A again for the non-player foul for 'ol Derock masquerading as an official on the field. Another -15 yds for A. Let's see, it's A 4/32 1/2 @ A-12 1/2. Clock on snap<<" Well Im not going to be as hard on the fighting Emus as you are JMN LOL. But Im definitely going to bang A and the head coach with a US for his contraband. But then Im going to let them replay the down. And get this guys ...Im starting the clock on the READY! Guess why ? e) Still in the air when it is deflected by Derock the Emu and is caught by B55 who advances to the A-10. ">>Again, assuming A is home team (someone else can do B), I believe you have UC on A at the previous spot. A 3/20 @ A-25, clock on the snap.<<" again I'm going with the replay with the clock on the ready . I might be marching off a delay of game against B for B55 running the ball to the A10 after I've already killed the play after the ball struck Derock The Emu
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Fri Apr 18, 2003, 10:54pm
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James, have you considered officiating another sport during the offseason to prevent yourself from going nitz!!
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Sat Apr 19, 2003, 10:19am
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Mon Apr 21, 2003, 08:38am
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b) Caught by A56 who gets yanked down by the back opening of his helmet at the A-43
>> A 4/2 @ A-43. No foul. Clock on ready I say Foul! NF 9-4-2h ...No player shall grasp an opponents facemask or any edge of a helmet opening Don't we actually have a double foul here?? Or since last year the the Federation make 56 an eligible recievers number??  1a). A1 is running at the A-35 when he leaps to catch a legal pass. While airborne he possesses the ball at the A-35, before he comes down he is contacted by B1 and the ball comes loose. A1, still airborne, regains control of the ball at the A-34, and contacts the ground on the A-33 where he is immediately tackled... I agree with JMN on this one, A ball at the 33...if you do rule possesion as you state James, then we at least have a fumble and the best A could hope for is a generous interpretation that they recovered it at the 34, IMHO I don't give him possesion on the "first" opportunity to secure the ball.
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Mon Apr 21, 2003, 09:47am
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Mon Apr 21, 2003, 10:03am
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It probably falls into the right/wrong, whichever way you go and depending on which sideline is closer it could be a good day or bad day for the outside guy : ). I will be curious to hear what the rest of the group have to say. But in reference to the play, if the reciever doesn't regain possesion, do you have a fumble or incomplete pass??
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Mon Apr 21, 2003, 11:47am
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James,
That just goes to show you, a brain is a frightening thing without a rule book. Next time I'll have mine at my side when answering your questions. About the first play: 1a). A1 is running at the A-35 when he leaps to catch a legal pass. While airborne he possesses the ball at the A-35, before he comes down he is contacted by B1 and the ball comes loose. A1, still airborne, regains control of the ball at the A-34, and contacts the ground on the A-33 where he is immediately tackled... I still can't quite join you on giving A the ball at the A-35. What if A had run and made progress to the A-35 and just before his progress was stopped, he fumbled and recovered the ball at the A-33? I believe your logic on the pass is that since A had possession, momentarily lost it, and then regained possession before contacting the ground, that the loss of possession is irrelevant. I respectfully disagree and believe that the loss of possession (either in the air or on the ground) changes the disposition of the play. Anyway, thanks for the quiz and the feedback.
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Mon Apr 21, 2003, 05:38pm
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Darn it you guys ... I think Im switching sides on this one and will now agree with you. I think I see where I've gone astray here. (With help, thank you) I was originally thinking this play was no different then as if it had happened over at the sideline with the receiver coming down OOB because of the contact. In that case hed get the catch and benefit of his furthest progress. But with him coming down inbounds defiantly changes things. So the A-33 it is. Thanks for having patience with me
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Wed Apr 30, 2003, 10:19am
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#3 happened to me...
Interestingly enough, #3 happened to us in a game that I wore the white hat. NFL QB Dave Brown (then at NJ's Westfield HS) was the QB. The pass fell incomplete and the U went down in a heap (the thud was deafening). Brown turned to me and said, "What was that?" The only thing I could say was, "Assault and battery, I think."
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Bob M.
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Wed Apr 30, 2003, 01:48pm
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Same thing happened to me...
I got hit by a pass during a game played in a torrential rain storm... My normally "cat-like" feet (how my referee describes my nimbleness at the umpire position) were stuck in the mud and the only move I could make was to bend sideways so the ball hit me in the bicep area instead of my head... The defense gave me credit for causing an incomplete pass!!! Luckily the ball was so slippery I don't think an eligible receiver was anywhere near me.
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Mike Simonds
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Can you believe it ? Looks like Ive been caught in my own nefarious web of intrigue! Good call CM 
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