How would you handle...?

[Welpe]

Subvarsity is very different here, you will see most officials on crews also working on Monday - Thursday nights. Judging by the OPs location, I'm guessing it is somewhat similar.

[jk97301]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The WH is working sub varsity because of his actions.

The OP is working sub varsity for some reason -- possiblly inexperience. So, just learn from the experience, pass the other guy up, and the OP won't have to work with him anymore.

Actually I also work Varsity. Here even College guys work sub Varsity games. There are 90 officials serving 45 schools and 3 youth leagues. So we work whatever our assigner wants us to work.

[Texas Aggie]

What would I do? Stop the game, go to him and tell him to knock that crap off or I would have him removed from the field. Now, I have the balls and the status in my chapter to do that. If I was a newer official, I would still go to him and tell him that this is a crew effort, that he can't unilaterally waive off calls or ignore what we do and if he continues, I will make his life hell with complaints. I would also consider getting the coaches involved (as witnesses to waive offs, etc.) if necessary.

[Texas Aggie]

There is a reason he and you are working Sub Varsity games.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. We have minimum subvarsity requirements that all officials have to comply with or they won't get a playoff game. All officials should work as much subvarsity as possible for a lot of reasons -- coverage, helping new guys, keep idiocy like stuff from the OP happening, etc.

If you have the attitude of "I've arrived and I don't do SV," in my opinion, you're of no use to football or any officiating at any level. I don't work as much as I did when I first started football (or anywhere near what I did in starting basketball -- close to 100 games) but I still work my share. Around 30 football games last year.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by jk97301

I worked LJ with a 3 man crew tonight on a sub varsity game. The White Hat basically wanted to run the game himself. Anytime Either I or the other wing threw flag it was waved off, even if they were obvious or safety. If he didn't call it, it was waved. On passes down field, he would call the incomplete from back behind the qb. I had one play on my side where I am 5 feet away from the catch signalling first down and killing clock, he comes up and signals that it was an incomplete pass. He would completely ignore the spots that the wings would give him. He has been doing this longer than I have been alive, but still, he should use his wings. How would you handle this?

JK

Stay professional. Throw flags for fouls you observe in your primary coverage area. The basketball forum has a phrase: "get in, get done, get out".

After the game is over, tell your assigning officer and express yourself, including to not work with that official again.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I'm not sure what you mean by this. We have minimum subvarsity requirements that all officials have to comply with or they won't get a playoff game. All officials should work as much subvarsity as possible for a lot of reasons -- coverage, helping new guys, keep idiocy like stuff from the OP happening, etc.

We don't and many do not. Usually most officials that are working that level are there because they are either not considered experienced enough to work other levels or they have to work them to get experience.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

If you have the attitude of "I've arrived and I don't do SV," in my opinion, you're of no use to football or any officiating at any level. I don't work as much as I did when I first started football (or anywhere near what I did in starting basketball -- close to 100 games) but I still work my share. Around 30 football games last year.

Whether I or others have arrived that is up for someone else to decide. But I have other things and have other responsibility and get to work when I want to, which means mostly weekend games. I also work college football, basketball and work baseball in the spring and I have cut back in the spring. I have many responsibilities in officiating outside of just the games I work. Also there are many organizations I sit on a board or I am a clinician in basketball as well. I am glad that many of you want to work that much football in a year. But officiating is a hobby and it comes with choices. And considering the time I have spent away from my house to do other things and just this weekend I worked a HS varsity game on Friday, College game (went to a college game to watch that evening with a family member) on Saturday and traveled to work a JUCO Jamboree this Sunday (several hours from my house), I think I am good doing what I do and it works for me. Just like there are people around here that have family obligations that they cannot work football at all during the season, we have choices here; sorry you do not have that kind of choice. We do not have to work what we do not want to work and do not have to work when we do not want to. That can come with consequences, but when you have done the things I have done, you do not get asked to work a lot of lower level game and that is fine with me. This season was the first season where we did not work that many lower level/prelim games (double headers) on Friday nights and that was fine with me as well. I would rather watch younger guys work those and help them get better. So what it means is I am blessed and do not have to work 30 games if I choose not to. And I do not have to put up with the crap this guy was dealing with. Then again most guys would not do that to me, because I would sell them out in a second for their behavior and the assignor would take action.

Peace

[CT1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Usually most officials that are working that level are there because they are either not considered experienced enough to work other levels or they have to work them to get experience.

That may be true in your little corner of officiatingdom. But I think you've read enough posts to realize that MOST officials who work sub-varsity do it because they CHOOSE to, not because it's the only games they can get.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CT1

That may be true in your little corner of officiatingdom. But I think you've read enough posts to realize that MOST officials who work sub-varsity do it because they CHOOSE to, not because it's the only games they can get.

I'm willing to bet he won't admit that.

[GBFBUmp]

Originally Posted by CT1

That may be true in your little corner of officiatingdom. But I think you've read enough posts to realize that MOST officials who work sub-varsity do it because they CHOOSE to, not because it's the only games they can get.

CT1 you are correct. In our area there's a huge need for officials at all levels. By no means are the officials at the lower level for any other reason than there's a game scheduled. There have been sub-varsity games I've done where there are 4 Master level officials on the field, some with State Championship Game experience.

For the OP... it is hard, however you must find a way to communicate with the WH. It may not be pleasant, but if he's not supporting any of your calls, what harm will be done by discussing the situation with him between periods. Be professional, keep your cool, and ask (as others have stated) what he saw in your area that would make him overrule your call/non-call....

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GBFBUmp

CT1 you are correct. In our area there's a huge need for officials at all levels. By no means are the officials at the lower level for any other reason than there's a game scheduled. There have been sub-varsity games I've done where there are 4 Master level officials on the field, some with State Championship Game experience.

I take a full slate of sub-varsity games every season and my Friday night crew works them all. We are all Master level officials (of course, this isn't the hardest thing to maintain in Wisconsin). We love working football and the season's very short.

One thing we do for these games is to let people work out of their comfort zone. Two of my guys have committed to referee more games next season. I work umpire as much as I can. Our back judge works wings and white hats quite a bit (he's my backup white hat in case I have to miss a game). We work on a lot of things on Thursday nights and situations come up Thursdays that make us better on Fridays.

I won't blast anyone for not working games, but at the high school level I think most of us need as many snaps as we can get to stay on top of our game.

[GBFBUmp]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I take a full slate of sub-varsity games every season and my Friday night crew works them all. We are all Master level officials (of course, this isn't the hardest thing to maintain in Wisconsin). We love working football and the season's very short.

.

Rich, you are right on both counts. I used to do a ton of lower level games, and would work varied positions. Scheduling (oldest is in Frosh football now) makes it hard for me to do sub-varsity games, or I'd be doing them.

It benefited me immensely to do the lower level games. I am typically ump on our crew, however, if we have a sub, I am able to step into any position and provide a quality game to the teams because of my lower level refresher games at each position.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

That may be true in your little corner of officiatingdom. But I think you've read enough posts to realize that MOST officials who work sub-varsity do it because they CHOOSE to, not because it's the only games they can get.

I have realize that totally, but as I said before, "There is a reason you are working that level." Most of those that I come in contact with that are veterans are not doing it out of the pure kindness of their heart and might be the contributing factor as to why this guy picked up every flag and dismissed every actions of a younger officials. And many that I know also do it for the money and no other reason, like Pee Wee football.

You cannot have it both ways.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'm willing to bet he won't admit that.

Unless any of us know the exact area in which the OPer lives or knows how or who gave him this particular game, all of us are talking from only personal experience and not the reality in which this person might live. Not everyone is assigned games under the same circumstances and even you Rich your willingness to work lower level games are not the same way others in my area for example are giving games even with the same willingness that you have. Depending on where you live or the conference there are not many games to give out and often those that are newer get those games with maybe one veteran. Here many lower level games are not assigned to 4 and 5 person crews. It is not unusual to get 2 officials on a lower level football game; this limits the veterans that are likely to get those games. One of my closest friends in as assignor and he struggles to get games to younger officials and is not going to ask veterans other than to help support first to work the majority of his games.

Peace