How would you handle...?

[jk97301]

I worked LJ with a 3 man crew tonight on a sub varsity game. The White Hat basically wanted to run the game himself. Anytime Either I or the other wing threw flag it was waved off, even if they were obvious or safety. If he didn't call it, it was waved. On passes down field, he would call the incomplete from back behind the qb. I had one play on my side where I am 5 feet away from the catch signalling first down and killing clock, he comes up and signals that it was an incomplete pass. He would completely ignore the spots that the wings would give him. He has been doing this longer than I have been alive, but still, he should use his wings. How would you handle this?

JK

[JRutledge]

There is a reason he and you are working Sub Varsity games. Just take it as an experience and move on. In the deep dark mind I would just walk off the field and give him my flag and whistle, but that is just a fantasy.

Do what our friend who is in a better place used to say (usually on the basketball), "Get In, Get Done and Get Out!!!"

Peace

[HLin NC]

If you have the ability to mark him off, then feel free to do so. Otherwise, you may just have to endure it.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is a reason he and you are working Sub Varsity games.

What does that mean?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CT1

What does that mean?

The WH is working sub varsity because of his actions.

The OP is working sub varsity for some reason -- possiblly inexperience. So, just learn from the experience, pass the other guy up, and the OP won't have to work with him anymore.

[MD Longhorn]

It's just me, but I'd be making sure the SV assignor knew of this guy's actions. Maybe he's been doing this but everyone's afraid to tell the assignor due to his "experience" - as an assignor, I'd want to know. The fact that he's still out there tells me assignor doesn't know. No one is going to learn crap from this guy.

[Ia-Ref]

Sub-varsity? Please don't look down on the officials who do this valuable work.
This is where the inexperience and experienced officials meet to provide a needed service to players that will some day be the varsity players.
I hope that experienced officials will help the inexperienced work toward being a first-class official through sharing of their practices, knowledge and experiences.
I was once one of the inexperienced who appreciated the guidence of a good teacher. After a while, I was able to sort through the crap of the good and bad teachers.

To answer the original question, I would chalk this experience up and let it serve as a remider of what you do not want to be when you are the WH in the same position.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Ia-Ref

To answer the original question, I would chalk this experience up and let it serve as a remider of what you do not want to be when you are the WH in the same position.

Honestly, I kind of feel badly that so many of you want to chalk this up to a bad experience and move on ... leaving the rest of the officials that work with this nimrod to have similar experiences.

[jTheUmp]

People do sub-varsity games for all kinds of reasons, including (but certainly not limited to):

1) they lack of experience officiating football.
2) they lack of ability to work varsity contests.
3) to help officials in categories 1 and 2 become better officials.
4) to help "give something back to the game"
5) to have a reason to leave their 'real job' an hour or two early on a beautiful afternoon.
6) to get some extra exercise
7) to make a few extra bucks
8) to work on their mechanics.
9) because they enjoy getting screamed at by Jr High Moms don't have a clue about the rules and who all think their kid is going to be the next Adrian Peterson or Tom Brady.

I'm in the midst of a 15-games-in-18-days stretch of football season, and I've worked anywhere from 6th grade to High School Varsity to NCAA JV during that time. Personally, I work non-varsity games for all of the reasons listed above (well, except the first two). I had some great varsity officials help me through my first season working non-varsity games, and now I'm at the point in my career where I want to return the favor to the next group of up-and-comers.

To get this back on jk97301's topic... I always say there's something to learn from every game. Here's two things I would try to learn from this game:
1) Don't ever be that guy when you move up the ladder.
2) How could you have talked to the WH about any of this, during the game, without it seeming confrontational? "What did you see when you called that pass incomplete?" "Why did we (say "we", it's less confrontational, and, after all, you live and die as a crew) wave off the flag? The coach is asking about it. (even if he isn't)" Stuff like that.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is a reason he and you are working Sub Varsity games.

Really?

Our football season is nine weeks long plus the postseason here. I work at least one varsity game every week, but quite frankly this isn't enough snaps for anyone to be a decent official, IMO. I had to laugh when I heard a Big Ten official speak last week and he said he still works freshman games on Thursday evenings.

I work any school game I can get my hands on -- I work JV on Monday, middle school on Tuesday, freshmen on Thursday, varsity on Friday, and most often a varsity reserve game (played by the bigger schools) on Saturday morning.

We take most of these games as a crew so we can work people at different positions and when we can't all work, I bring people in who are new and can use the chance to work.

I know this has nothing to do with the OP, but this isn't basketball (where many people, including myself, work nothing below the varsity level) or baseball (same thing).

As far as the OP goes, sometimes there's nothing you can do but GIGDGO (as mentioned earlier). The coaches see what's going on. The assignor probably already knows.

It aggravates me when I hear of a white hat abusing his position on the field. One thing a good referee needs to learn and understand is that during the play he's just one of the crew and has specific responsibilities. Listen, I know I'm in charge of the crew and so does everyone else -- it's why I have to wear the white hat -- but I don't have to demonstrate that. As I've told my crew members many times -- I have the easiest position on the field to work. Until a flag is on the ground, my job is considerably easier than either wing's job or the umpire's. To remind me of this, I work wing and umpire in lower level games every week (when I have someone able and willing to put on a white hat, that is).

Trying to step on a crew member is just a terrible thing because it tells everyone that (1) the R thinks his partners are incompetent and (2) he feels he knows better. So this leaves everyone watching (including the teams and coaches) feeling that the officials don't know what they're doing AND that the R is an overbearing jerk. Great combination. What's worse is when he pulls this crap, he's probably wrong (he isn't really watching for DPI downfield) or he's taking his eye off his responsibility (how did the QB end up on the ground?) or BOTH. I'm willing to say here that experience doesn't translate to good officiating. Some people have one year of experience many times over.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Honestly, I kind of feel badly that so many of you want to chalk this up to a bad experience and move on ... leaving the rest of the officials that work with this nimrod to have similar experiences.

It's hard to change people. Where I live, officials are hired directly by the schools for sub-varsity games. There is no assignor, no hiring association.

The only way to insulate yourself from guys like this HERE is to form a crew and take all assignments as crews. I do that and then hand-pick the people I want to work with -- mostly the guys on our regular Friday night crew and newer guys who want to learn and get better. I have no time for people like the WH in the OP. Far as I am concerned, he can go and ruin someone else's afternoon.

[Welpe]

I'd talk to the assigner. It may get something done, it may not but I'd think he'd want to be aware this is going on.

It would take all I had not to pull some smart arsed stunt like standing back there right beside the R or something similar. That is a terrible way for the R to call a game.

[bigjohn]

Personally, I am very thankful for guys that are willing to work those sub varsity game. It is easier to forgive a guy that just plain wants to be out there to help the kids than some of the egomaniacs you see on Friday night. Most officials are doing it for all the right reasons and I tend to defend them but some guys want to be the SHOW.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Really?

Our football season is nine weeks long plus the postseason here. I work at least one varsity game every week, but quite frankly this isn't enough snaps for anyone to be a decent official, IMO. I had to laugh when I heard a Big Ten official speak last week and he said he still works freshman games on Thursday evenings.

Yes really. Also this is going to vary from one state or area to another, but most of the sub varsity games I work are associated with a varsity night contest and with my crew who are all very veteran in their experience. I do not have time to work a lot of other sub varsity because I have other things to do and when I do I am usually working with very inexperienced officials. I worked a sub varsity game a few weeks ago and one of the guys was only a 1st or second year official (3 man crew). And because of my experience I was the Referee/Umpire in the middle. Now I love working with those guys and use it as an opportunity to teach and help them out. I also know a lot of Big Ten/MAC/MVC officials and there are not many of them in this state working lower level games. For one to work that level is a sacrifice to their families and jobs and I am sure many do not want to get hurt when they will make a lot more money or have a better opportunity to work that level for a long time. Also many of our lower level games are Saturday morning and that eliminates most college officials from even having the opportunity to work other games. Depending on the conference they might play during the week, but I have so many commitments during the week it is hard to work those games during the season. So that leaves guys that have little experience working those games. And that also does not include the multi-sport official that works volleyball or basketball or soccer during the football season that takes them away from games outside of the weekend as well.

Bob really explained it best. The guy he was working with probably is there for a reason. He might not be considered very good so that is what his schedule includes a lot of. And his attitude probably helps that situation. I am also with mbcrowder is to chalk much of this up to experience and move on. You might find that this guy has a reputation that precedes them and he has treated others the same way. I would not go running to the assignor just because this happen. Let the coaches do that and I would also not have a problem telling a coach that my partner decided to pick up my flags when they asked me about "why" a call was not enforced.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's hard to change people. Where I live, officials are hired directly by the schools for sub-varsity games. There is no assignor, no hiring association.

All we deal with are assignors in this part of the state. So if are working a game, the crew is set up to have someone with some experience on it, but realistically the game needs to be covered with whomever is available. It would be unusual to have a 2, 3 or 4 Person crew to have all experience guys on them or guys that will not behave the way this guy did as the WH. I worked on a JV game one Monday where the entire crew had worked a State Final. That almost never happens because the assignors want younger guys to work these games in some capacity. Then again that situation I mentioned was some last minute changes, so the assignor had to cover the game with who was available. We all happened to be available so we worked that game in particular.

Peace