Proper spot and down?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by oncelost77

I didn't take a shot at you, so don't take one at me. I played high school and college ball and currently ref high school and college ball. I also coach a 12yr old team. It seems by your comments that you don't understand strictly football and you want to bend the rules to support your agenda. Did you lose a game that hinged on this issue?

No, I just see this case being discussed and the mishigos of its being an IW rather than just calling it a correct ruling of dead ball in possession.

So, I guess you are advocating that if we see someone close to or kinda has it secured, to shut it down and give it to him. If a player is on a ball and I don't see it moving, regardless of location of opposing players, I blow it dead and give it to him. I referenced a pile up, didn't I? In my case, I don't see clear possession but there is a RB that fumbled it on the bottom. Do I say, well he was the closest to it when the pile up happened, offense's ball?

If someone clearly got to it first, and you lost sight of it because it was sandwiched between the front of his frame and the ground, and not because of parallax, then yeah. Whatever other ruling you make -- because you can't see the ball as players struggle over it, and therefore don't know when it's dead -- will be arbitrary. You can make up a game like the one you described wherein you allow some players to continue to wrestle over it while you gradually eliminate others, but that has less cx with actual football than does my assertion of dead ball as soon as someone sandwiches it with the ground.