Proper Mechanic

[Clark Kent]

In a two man game if a three is taken in the deep corner and Lead marks it does he also mirror the make of Trail if the field goal is good?

I was going to look this up, but you experts on here should know just as well as the book does!

[JRutledge]

Normally the lead makes the attempt signal if the shot is in their area. And they signal the basket good (TD signal) when it is good in their primary. If the shot is not in their area, then the Lead does not signal a good shot.

I would check with your local people, some might want a different application.

Peace

[truerookie]

I agree it maybe an area thing.

Some may want to pre-game this particular situation.

[Nevadaref]

Yes, if the Lead marks the 3pt attempt because it came from his primary, then he also gives the successful 3pt goal signal and the Trail will mirror that. If the attempt comes from the Trail's primary, then he will take care of the signal if the goal is made and the Lead does not mirror.

You can find this on page 30 of the 2007-09 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes, if the Lead marks the 3pt attempt because it came from his primary, then he also gives the successful 3pt goal signal and the Trail will mirror that. If the attempt comes from the Trail's primary, then he will take care of the signal if the goal is made and the Lead does not mirror.

You can find this on page 30 of the 2007-09 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual.

I agree with Nevada. The lead should signal the successful goal and the trail should mirror. This is the only time (that I can think of) when the lead signals for a three-point attempt.

-Josh

[fiasco]

So, if it's in the Lead's area, does the Trail mirror just the successful goal, or does he signal the attempt, too?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fiasco

So, if it's in the Lead's area, does the Trail mirror just the successful goal, or does he signal the attempt, too?

Just the successful goal.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Just the successful goal.

So here's what doesn't make sense to me.

I've always been told that the mirror mechanic is for the benefit of the scorekeeper and the benches, since the lead is often buried in the baseline and hard to see.

If we mirror the successful goal, why don't we also mirror the attempt so that the scorekeeper (for the sake of stat-keeping) and the bench can know that it's a three-point attempt?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by fiasco

So here's what doesn't make sense to me.

I've always been told that the mirror mechanic is for the benefit of the scorekeeper and the benches, since the lead is often buried in the baseline and hard to see.

If we mirror the successful goal, why don't we also mirror the attempt so that the scorekeeper (for the sake of stat-keeping) and the bench can know that it's a three-point attempt?

The attempt isn't as important as the made goal, from a scorekeeping standpoint. That's why only the made goal is mirrored, to make sure the scorekeepper sees it.

The official that has on-ball coverage knows whether it's a 3-point attempt or not, so if both officials signal the attempt, who's watching off-ball?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by fiasco

So here's what doesn't make sense to me.

I've always been told that the mirror mechanic is for the benefit of the scorekeeper and the benches, since the lead is often buried in the baseline and hard to see.

If we mirror the successful goal, why don't we also mirror the attempt so that the scorekeeper (for the sake of stat-keeping) and the bench can know that it's a three-point attempt?

I've done stat keeping for D1 basketball. From my experience, the stats crews generally have an idea of who's call it is. I don't think it's really a problem to be honest.

-Josh

Originally Posted by fiasco

If we mirror the successful goal, why don't we also mirror the attempt...

I run across many officials with this same thought. Many are under the impression that signaling the "attempt" is just that, but that signal also indicates that you have the shooter up & down (one foot). So in a 2 person game if both officials have the attempt, who's watching off-ball where 70 - 80% of the action takes place?
Even in a 3 person game, when 2 official are signaling the attempt, someone should recognize that, drop their hand & officiate elsewhere.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I've done stat keeping for D1 basketball. From my experience, the stats crews generally have an idea of who's call it is. I don't think it's really a problem to be honest.

-Josh

It is not about knowledge of the table people, it is about who are the table likely to see. Usually the Lead official is not the most likely person to be seen. The idea is to have the Trail (and Center in 3) that is easier to see to always mirror or signal the good three point attempt. And if the Lead is looking a three point shots attempt, they are not likely looking at the things going on in their area. The Lead has most of the players in their primary.

Peace

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I run across many officials with this same thought. Many are under the impression that signaling the "attempt" is just that, but that signal also indicates that you have the shooter up & down (one foot). So in a 2 person game if both officials have the attempt, who's watching off-ball where 70 - 80% of the action takes place?
Even in a 3 person game, when 2 official are signaling the attempt, someone should recognize that, drop their hand & officiate elsewhere.

I'm not saying that the Trail has the shooter. I'm just saying you can watch your area, know what's going on there, and also see your partner signal the attempt.

Signaling the attempt does not necessarily mean you're not watching your primary.

[SmokeEater]

This is an interesting discussion and I am not saying I agree it comes down to an area association requirement.
One thing I do believe is the Lead should be signalling an attempt from the corner, mirrored by the lead and the lead picks up the shot and signals the good basket if it scores. The lead "should not" be responsible for watching if the basket goes in. They should be watching rebounders and/or staying withthe shooter.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

This is an interesting discussion and I am not saying I agree it comes down to an area association requirement.
One thing I do believe is the Lead should be signalling an attempt from the corner, mirrored by the lead and the lead picks up the shot and signals the good basket if it scores. The lead "should not" be responsible for watching if the basket goes in. They should be watching rebounders and/or staying withthe shooter.

The Lead does not need to know the shot goes in, that becomes rather obvious after a second or two, by the way the players react to the ball and how the ball comes through the net. This is not like a foul where you might have to watch players come to the floor. The players most of all tell you if the ball goes in. Actually, the Lead might be watching the shooter and the Trail will watch the rebounding.

Peace