Extending the Period/Game

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Robert, there is no way a wing can "preventatively officiate" a DT lining up in the NZ. He's too far away to hear us if we tried. The U isn't going to really know unless he's way off into the NZ.

A DE or LB creeping up might can hear us if he's paying some attention and knows his uniform number. (don't laugh, lots of kids seem to have no idea what their number is, particularly early in the season or if they are MS or JV's)

I still don't understand the mechanics of the situation, and don't even have the situation clear yet.

AIUI, both teams were onside at the instant the ball was made ready for play, correct?

Next question is, when the DT entered the neutral zone, was the snapper on the ball, near the ball, or was team A not even close to lined up yet?

If team A was not even close, why didn't the wing official (How many do you have in freshman football?) come in to shoo the DT out of the NZ?

If the snapper was on the ball, why wasn't it whistled dead?

The only remaining possibility is that team A was coming to the line in a hurry and close to it when the DT entered the NZ. Is that what it was, and was the course followed, i.e. flagging encroachment as the ball is put in play, correct? It seems like Fed rules are geared as much as possible to avoiding such a situation, but is this the one little gap they left that makes it happen?

If that last condition is what actually applied, then why isn't that a foul that occurred as part of the live ball portion of the down, allowing team A an untimed down if they wind up needing it to put the ball in play?

Or does what Reffing Rev. wrote apply? I.e. does the encroachment prevent the ball from being put in play?

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

So everyone was on their own side of the ball, the neutral zone began, and then one of the B players entered it to line up? Why would that not be whistled dead.

Ok, I'll clear things up for you with excruciating detail.

We had a 1/10 from about A's 30. We had a completion to midfield in the middle of the field with a short run ending at B's 40. We stopped the clock to move the chains. A and B hustled down the field. The A QB is making a spiking motion and yelling a formation and snap count. My U is standing over the ball waiting for the chains to come down the field, and looking to me for the RFP. I confirm with my HL that the chains are ready, point to my U to back off. Everyone is lined up and nearly ready to go. The A lineman have their elbows on their knees, wideouts and backs are in place. B lineman are down on their hands and knees, LB's in position, DB's lined up on receivers.

Once I confirm all my crew is ready, I blow the whistle and wind the clock. Apparently a B lineman was in the NZ. I don't know if it was before or after the RFP. At our meeting this Wed, I can ask my LJ for more detail on the timing if that would satisfy your concerns.

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Or were you not serious about everyone's having been on their own side of the ball as the NZ was set? What I'm trying to figure out is why the ball was allowed to be snapped.

Because, as usual, we try to give B a chance to get back. Before the RFP, the B lineman were on their knees. I suppose at the RFP, they got into their stances, and in doing so, entered the NZ. The quickness of the snap following the RFP, the LJ's whistle and flag, occurred so close together to likely be indistinguishable.

As for the seriousness of everyone being on their own side of the ball, yes, I'm serious. When I'm standing behind A, I can't see whether the B lineman are in the NZ before or after the RFP. You wonder why the ball was allowed to be snapped? Perhaps because things were moving quickly, and the proximity of the RFP, B getting into a stance, the encroachment, the snap, and whistle to stop the play, made it difficult to stop the snap.

Regardless, there was no play. It was a snap, flag, spike, whistle, clock stoppage, all within seconds.

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

If team B was getting set before team A, why wasn't there some preventive officiating via warning in the case of the DT?

Perhaps, because as pointed out, it was in the middle of the field, and they couldn't hear? Perhaps because B encroached when getting into their stance? Perhaps because everything happened bang-bang?

Geez. I ask this situation not to question the mechanics of me or my crew. It was a frosh game. We had young guys on the wings (me and the U were the only experienced varsity officials). I asked this to clarify 1) extending the period, and 2) conferences after an apparent end of game. If I was interested in mechanics, I would have asked.

[Robert Goodman]

With the complete description, this becomes very clear. There was an encroachment foul during the dead ball interval. There was the appearance of a snap and scrimmage down, but that snap never officially occurred. The encroachment was penalized. However, team A was misled into believing that the ball had been live with a foul during that down that was penalized with the down to be repeated, and their coach therefore believed they had the right to an untimed down.

Still, there was something else that should have been done, unless the rules I'm referencing have been changed, which I doubt. (I have no hope of getting the article & section numbering right with so many intervening editions, but my bet is that their substance has not changed.) With team A preparing to spike the ball and seconds left in the game, team B's action delayed the game. It may not have been an intentional encroachment, but there would appear to be benefit to team B by discombobulating team A (making them come off the ball and await a new RFP) so as to let time run out, so I would rule delay of game by B, and with the penalty accepted for delay of game (superseding the encroachment penalty), time would resume on the succeeding snap rather than the RFP.