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Old Fri Jul 22, 2005, 01:17pm
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A has the ball, 2nd and 10 from their own 40. There are 3 seconds left in the game. A7 takes the snap and rolls out to pass. Defender, B22, is flagged for holding A88. A7 cannot find a receiver and tucks the ball and heads downfield. He gets all the way to the 15 of B when he stops and tosses a forward pass into the endzone, which is caught by A80. Time has of course expired.

Now, this isn't too crazy. This could actually happen. If we rule double foul and extend the period with an untimed down, does the loss of down foul matter? In the rulebook under 3-3-3A it mentions that the penalty has to be accepted. Does the penalty being combined with another penalty to make a double foul constitute acceptance? If so, I would say the game is over.

Anywho....tell me what ya think.
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Old Fri Jul 22, 2005, 01:41pm
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3-3-3-B says that a period must be extended if there was a double foul.

In a double foul, the acceptance is assumed. You could ask each team if they want to accept the penalty against the other team and replay the down. Teams normally do so the referee doesn't boother to ask. A team can decline a penaly and make a double foul go away as they do on a change of possesion. ( A fouls at the snap, B intercepts and fouls on the run back - either a double foul and replay or, more likely, B declines A's illegal motion and takes the ball. A then accepts the penalty for B's clip on the run back). That's a long way to say in a double foul, both fouls are accepted.

This is going to be replayed.

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Old Fri Jul 22, 2005, 01:54pm
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And, to respond to your other question, neither loss of down nor automatic first down has any effect when there is a double foul. These fouls offset just the same as any other foul, and you get a replay.
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Old Fri Jul 22, 2005, 02:02pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JDLJ
3-3-3-B says that a period must be extended if there was a double foul.

In a double foul, the acceptance is assumed. You could ask each team if they want to accept the penalty against the other team and replay the down. Teams normally do so the referee doesn't boother to ask. A team can decline a penaly and make a double foul go away as they do on a change of possesion. ( A fouls at the snap, B intercepts and fouls on the run back - either a double foul and replay or, more likely, B declines A's illegal motion and takes the ball. A then accepts the penalty for B's clip on the run back). That's a long way to say in a double foul, both fouls are accepted.

This is going to be replayed.

REPLY: I respectfully disagree. I believe that the fouls are considered mutually declined rather than mutually accepted. And, since there was no change of possession, this is a double foul. You don't (make that can't) speak with either captain. The fouls automatically offset. There is no option for teams to accept/decline parts of a double foul. You just wipe it out and replay the down. You say, "A team can decline a penaly and make a double foul go away as they do on a change of possesion." They can't if there was no change of possession. And, by the way, when NF 10-2-2 is enforced, the situation is no longer considered a double foul. For it to be called a double foul it must meet one of the three criteria in NF 10-2-1.

I do agree though that the period will be extended in this situation because of NF 3-3-3b.
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Old Fri Jul 22, 2005, 02:18pm
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Bob M.

You state that "There is no option for teams to accept/decline parts of a double foul. You just wipe it out and replay the down."

In Case 10.2.1, it says If R accepts the penalty for either foul by K, it is a double foul. R may declne the penalties and retain possesion following enforcement of the penalty for R2's foul. This wording indicates that you can accept/decline parts of a double foul.

Technically, the penalties are "cancelled" rather than accepted or declined. For the purposes of the original question, I was say they were accepted.


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Old Fri Jul 22, 2005, 03:26pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrMooreReferee
A has the ball, 2nd and 10 from their own 40. There are 3 seconds left in the game. A7 takes the snap and rolls out to pass. Defender, B22, is flagged for holding A88. A7 cannot find a receiver and tucks the ball and heads downfield. He gets all the way to the 15 of B when he stops and tosses a forward pass into the endzone, which is caught by A80. Time has of course expired.

Now, this isn't too crazy. This could actually happen. If we rule double foul and extend the period with an untimed down, does the loss of down foul matter? In the rulebook under 3-3-3A it mentions that the penalty has to be accepted. Does the penalty being combined with another penalty to make a double foul constitute acceptance? If so, I would say the game is over.

Anywho....tell me what ya think.
By the defensive: holding. L10 from PLS.
By the offense: offside pass subject to penalty. DC at PF.

If A declines the hold, B will accept the offside pass and end the game. Therefore, A will accept the hold and the offside pass becomes moot. A 1D/10 @ A-50. One play.
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Old Fri Jul 22, 2005, 04:18pm
MJT MJT is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JDLJ
Bob M.

You state that "There is no option for teams to accept/decline parts of a double foul. You just wipe it out and replay the down."

In Case 10.2.1, it says If R accepts the penalty for either foul by K, it is a double foul. R may declne the penalties and retain possesion following enforcement of the penalty for R2's foul. This wording indicates that you can accept/decline parts of a double foul.

Technically, the penalties are "cancelled" rather than accepted or declined. For the purposes of the original question, I was say they were accepted.

You missed what Bob said. He was correct, you cannot accept/decline parts of a double foul. He said when NF 10-2-2 is enforced, it is no longer a double foul. 10-2-2 is in short, the "clean hands" rule. It is not a double foul, double fouls are covered in rule 10-2-1.

10-2-1 says it is a double foul if "there is a COP and the team in final possession accepts the penalty for its opponents foul." 10-2-2 involves a foul by each team when the team last gaining possession gets it with "clean hands."

It is kind of a technicality about not declining part of a double foul cuz by accepting their opponents foul, they are "creating" a double foul. So they cannot accept/decline parts of a double foul, but by accepting, they can create a double foul.
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