The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 21, 2011, 08:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 48
Kickoff question

Ball is kicked near the sideline on a kickoff. The returner before catching the ball has one foot out of bounds and the other foot in-bounds, as soon as he catches and possesses the kicked ball the official blows the play dead. My question is "is ball spotted where caught or is this a out of bounds violation"?
Any help would be appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 21, 2011, 09:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 78
If the receiver, or any player is OOB, with one or both feet, and subsequently touches a kick it is a kick OOB.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 21, 2011, 01:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
6.1.8 SITUATION C: R1 is running near a sideline as he attempts to catch a free
kick in flight. R1 has: (a) both feet inbounds; or (b) one foot on the sideline, when
he reaches through the plane of the sideline
. The ball bounces off his hands and
lands out of bounds. RULING: In (a), the ball is not yet out of bounds until it hit
the ground there. Since R1 touched it, he caused it to go out of bounds and R will
have the ball at the inbounds spot. In (b), since R1 is out of bounds when the ball
is touched, the kicker has caused the ball to be out of bounds.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 21, 2011, 02:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Dolphins player did this on purpose about 2 years ago.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 21, 2011, 04:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
6.1.8 SITUATION C: R1 is running near a sideline as he attempts to catch a free
kick in flight. R1 has...
I'm curious about a (c) situation that is not mentioned here.

(c) one foot on the sideline, when he into the field of play, touching the grounded ball that is completly inbounds and almost at rest.

Is it a kick out of bounds or is R the "offender"?
__________________
Dan
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 21, 2011, 07:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Ump View Post
I'm curious about a (c) situation that is not mentioned here.

(c) one foot on the sideline, when he into the field of play, touching the grounded ball that is completly inbounds and almost at rest.

Is it a kick out of bounds or is R the "offender"?
What makes the ball out of bounds?
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 22, 2011, 10:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 78
It is still a kick OOB. The ball has to touch an R player inbounds........ and this R player is not inbounds.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 23, 2011, 12:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG UMP View Post
It is still a kick OOB. The ball has to touch an R player inbounds........ and this R player is not inbounds.
The way you phrased that is entirely incorrect, and likely the reason he missed it.

The ball has to touch an inbounds R player. The difference between that and "an R player inbounds" makes ALL the difference.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 23, 2011, 05:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG UMP View Post
It is still a kick OOB. The ball has to touch an R player inbounds........ and this R player is not inbounds.
This is the same as I thought, but I wasn't sure.

It just seems unfair to me that an OOB R player could reach back into the field, while he was still OOB, and touch/muff the ball and (even if the ball would not have gone OOB on it's own) the action of the R player causes K to be penalized.

Two lessons:
1. K should not kick a free kick even near the side line.
2. What I preceive as "fair" and what is the proper ruling are not necessarily the same.
__________________
Dan
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 24, 2011, 08:05am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Ump View Post
This is the same as I thought, but I wasn't sure.

It just seems unfair to me that an OOB R player could reach back into the field, while he was still OOB, and touch/muff the ball and (even if the ball would not have gone OOB on it's own) the action of the R player causes K to be penalized.

Two lessons:
1. K should not kick a free kick even near the side line.
2. What I preceive as "fair" and what is the proper ruling are not necessarily the same.
It's not so much about fairness, it's about having a single, universal definition of a player being out of bounds (including for pass receptions and running plays). If he's OOB when he touches a kick, it's a kick OOB.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 25, 2011, 11:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
For argument's sake, why does this phrase appear in the case play?

"...when he reaches through the plane of the sideline."

He has one foot inbounds and one foot OOB, which means the player is OOB. Why does it matter whether he touches the ball on the inbounds side of the sideline plane or reaches through the plane of the sideline and touches the ball?
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 27, 2011, 08:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
For argument's sake, why does this phrase appear in the case play?

"...when he reaches through the plane of the sideline."

He has one foot inbounds and one foot OOB, which means the player is OOB. Why does it matter whether he touches the ball on the inbounds side of the sideline plane or reaches through the plane of the sideline and touches the ball?
I just returned from one of our local associations pre-season meeting where this exact question was asked. Some believed that this was an old reference to the "plane" of the side line that is no longer relavent. Others, believe that if R is OOB but reaches into the field of play, they have caused the ball to go OOB and thus they get the ball at that spot, i.e. no foul.

Even though I'm not knowledgeable enough to argue with these guys, I did play devil's advocate, saying, "But doesn't touching always proceed possession, and isn't it still a kick until possessed, and those the status was still "a kick" and it was touch by a player OOB, thus a Free Kick OOB?"

We did not come away with a consensus.
__________________
Dan
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 27, 2011, 08:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
For argument's sake, why does this phrase appear in the case play?

"...when he reaches through the plane of the sideline."

He has one foot inbounds and one foot OOB, which means the player is OOB. Why does it matter whether he touches the ball on the inbounds side of the sideline plane or reaches through the plane of the sideline and touches the ball?
You're right: it doesn't matter to the ruling. But I think they added that phrase for specificity in the case.

It might have made more sense to make the case go the other direction: even if the ball is still over the field of play, if the player who touches the kick is OOB, then it's a kick OOB and a foul.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 28, 2011, 10:51am
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Ump View Post
I just returned from one of our local associations pre-season meeting where this exact question was asked. Some believed that this was an old reference to the "plane" of the side line that is no longer relavent.
I believe this is the explanation as once upon a time, the sideline plane was relevant.

I'm no longer current on NFHS rules. Does the rule change this year concerning illegal participation affect the ruling?
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 29, 2011, 09:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
... rule change this year concerning illegal participation...
Now your just trying to open a whole new can of worms.

The consensus was the if R intentionally went OOB or realized he was OOB and then intentionally reached back in to touch the ball, then yes, that would definitely fall under the new rule. No one felt that it would apply if R was perhaps accidentally touching the side line with one foot as he fielded the ball inside "the plane".
__________________
Dan
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Penalty on kickoff? buckrog64 Football 4 Sat Aug 29, 2009 05:09am
NF Kickoff Question jwaz Football 2 Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:45am
kickoff dallas Football 1 Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:13am
Kickoff Green Football 16 Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:50pm
kickoff yankeesfan Football 25 Wed Aug 04, 2004 08:46pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:54am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1